I Don’t Usually Share Advice Like This: 6 Lessons on Making Any Relationship Work

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I am not the expert in what your marriage should look like. I like to keep my marriage between Chris and I. In fact, there are things that Chris and I talk about with our therapists that our kids don't know. You want to know why? Because it's not their fucking business and they shouldn't know. And your kids are not your therapist and they're not involved in your marriage and you shouldn't be talking to them about the stuff that you're mad about related to your partner. It's terrible to do that. Work on it with your partner because the more time you spend complaining and griping about your partner to your friends or your family or dear God, do not do it with your kids. You need to be spending twice that amount of time talking to your spouse. See, that's why you're not connected. That's why you have problems because you're not actually talking to your spouse.

 

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So when we first started seeing a therapist, it was in 2020 and we decided to go to therapy because we had some major things going on because obviously the pandemic turned our life upside down and we were both at our wits end and we were fighting a lot. And here's one of the first things that our therapist said to us, and it really has stuck with me. And I think that this framework will really work for you. This framework will be really helpful for you too. He observed that Chris and I are excellent at the transactional aspects of life. We can cook dinner together, we can sync up our calendars, we can run errands. We can do projects around the house. We're really great at parenting together. We get the day-to-day stuff done. We love spending time as a family. We have meaningful work that we feel connected to.

 

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But here's what happened. Somewhere during the past, probably five to eight years, we got so swept out. We got so swept up in the doing that we stopped being connected. And the fact is I was very resentful that he wasn't successful in his career. At least in the beginning, I was really resentful. And I can see that my resentment made me turn on him and it made me turn on him when he needed me most. I stopped believing that he would be able to save that business. And so I can see, and I will admit, and this is kind of one of those episodes where I'm the asshole and I'm just going to admit all the things that I did wrong in the hopes that you don't repeat the mistakes that I made. 

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And there was resentment on Chris's side too. And that emotional connection is what was missing for Chris and I. The love was there underneath it all. But there was this mid layer that had built up that made us really lose a connection to one another. And I remember this particular moment, it was right around right before we went to therapy, a really close friend of ours saw us at a dinner that friends of ours had just invited a bunch of us over for a barbecue. And she called me the next day and she said, is Chris okay? And I said, yeah, I think Chris is fine. Why? And she said, something's wrong with him, Mel. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, there's just something missing. The light behind his eyes is gone. There's normally this magnetic connection between the two of you, and I haven't seen the two of you in a couple years, but it's just something's wrong.

 

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And she was right. What was wrong was number one, we were missing the connection. We were disconnected. And there were a lot of other things wrong too. One of which I would come to learn is that Chris was really struggling with depression. And so that brings me to, well, what do you do? How do you get the connection back, Mel, if I'm going to hit the pause button and before I just shove the middle finger in the air and say, you're the problem. I'm out of here. I'm going to be happy. I'm leaving. I'm done. What do I want you to stop and think about before you do that? Well, there are six things that you got to do in my personal opinion that you can do and that do work if both of you are willing to work on it. And I got to take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors and when we come back, we're going to go step by step through these six things that I did in my marriage that I know will probably help you in your marriage and friendships too.

 

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Welcome back, it's Mel. And we're talking about what I've learned in the last couple years about marriage. And my husband and I, as you now know, have been married for 26 years. We've been together for 28 years. We started seeing a marriage counselor, a therapist, whatever you call him. He's amazing. Dr. Cooper, I love this man. Thank you. Dr. Cooper. If you're listening, 

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I mean, it's critical to your marriage. And I've said this a bazillion times and I'm going to keep reminding you, our marriage is not perfect. It's not the ideal. It is ideal for us. And I've already shared with you that there are years that are wonderful where we were wonderful to each other, where we were together all the time and investing in each other's growth and growing together. And then there were those years that sucked. We caused each other a lot of pain. And I want you to view the painful stuff in a relationship like weeds in a garden over time, if you're not careful, those weeds, they fucking take over. So do not ignore the little shitty stuff because weeds, they start out as this tiny little thing. And then have you ever noticed you go away from your garden for a couple days and it rains and then the sun comes out and these teeny little weeds are like five feet tall?

 

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That's the little shitty irritating stuff. Talk about it. Ask for what you need. Clear the air. Do not harbor resentment. And I'm telling you, therapy, if you can afford it, get yourself to therapy. It is a gift. Chris and I were already talking to an individual therapist, but that's not working on your marriage by the way. That's working on yourself and you should work on yourself. But it wasn't until we came together and made it a priority that things really started to shift. And one of the things that I love about talking to a therapist is that for me, I get more out of a 45 minute call with a therapist. We have never met our therapist in person. We do the entire thing virtually. But hitting the pause button every other week to truly unpack something that happened between the two of us, listen to one another.

 

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That's the hard part for me. I'm learning to learn about one another. This is better than any damn date night could ever be because we're not just going out and having time alone. We're actually investing in our growth. That's very different than having a stake in a bottle of wine. We're digging out the weeds in our relationships so that things can blossom and bloom so that when we do go out for that meal and that night out, it's actually more than just a dinner date. It's something that has real depth to it. So for you, if you can't afford therapy, I totally get it, but I totally understand I have been in that place in my life. There are free online courses you can take together. There are books that you could read together. In fact, the episode that we just released, Dr. Nicole la Para her brand new workbook, how to meet yourself is a guided journey through knowing yourself better.

 

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You could use that $25, use that to make your marriage better. So there are things that you can do if you get intentional. So number two, this is also something that is critical. It seems like common sense, but you got to do it. You got to develop a genuine sense of interest again in the person you were interested when you first met them. Remember that. But I bet along the way you started to decide, oh, I know everything I know about this stupid person. There they go again. Eye roll. Well, in therapy, I learned a lot about Chris that I didn't know. I'm going to say that again. In therapy, I learned a lot about my husband that I didn't know. And I'm talking 24 years into marriage, things that I didn't know. I'm not talking about deep dark secrets. I'm talking about the way that his thoughts and his feelings impact him.

 

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And for example, I had no idea how traumatized Chris was by his childhood because it wasn't like anything horrific happened to him. And his mom is one of my closest friends, but he was a latchkey kid. His parents were always working. His brothers were way older. Nobody was ever around. 

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And we're all guilty of assuming we know someone just because we've known them for a long time. So starting today, here's how you can apply this. Assume starting today that you don't know a lot about the person that you're with, that there's a whole part of them to discover. And I'm not talking about some deep dark secret. I'm just talking about how they feel, how their childhood impacted them. Just think about yourself for a minute. When I think about how much I've changed my God in the last four years, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, I've lived that in my own mind and body. Unless you talk about it and listen to each other, you're not going to know that. I can give you another example of how little we know about each other. So when I was hosting this daytime talk show, we did an episode where Chris was on and there was this marriage expert relationship person.

 

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And Chris revealed on national television that when it comes to being intimate, he prefers to have sex in the morning. I had been married to the guy for 22 years. I had no idea that's what he preferred. So you're not going to really get connected to someone unless you're interested in learning more about them. So ask more questions, be more curious, and that interest also means be loud and celebratory. I've been working on this. I mean Chris, as he is leading his men's retreat called Soul degree. I'm cheering for him as he is pursuing a master's in spiritual psychology. I am rooting for him as he is studying and getting a certificate to be a death doula. I am like clearing the schedule, making sure he's got time to do that as he is pursuing a certification to do integration therapy for the new psychedelic modalities.

 

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I'm like all in him feeling supported and celebrated. That makes him know that I'm not only interested, but that I love him enough to be supportive in the things that he wants to do. And of course, he is cheering loud for me. And this isn't just obvious, this is also researched. Celebrating and sharing wins is critical. It's probably one of the reasons why your roommates, you need to start pointing out what's going right instead of griping about the shit that's going wrong. Researchers from UCLA discovered that the single most crucial factor in tightening or destroying a bond that you have with your partner is how you react to good news in one another's lives. How you react to good news based on research. Way more important than how you react to any bad news. And here's why. You see researchers found that celebrating your partner gives your partner an emotional lift.

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Whereas playing down big news like, oh, that's okay, that's okay. It leaves a lasting chill. And so you can start implementing that practice immediately. The next time your partner is something good happen, big or small, celebrate that shit. Show them how proud you are. Give 'em a high five, hug them. And if they don't have something amazing going on, freaking call it out. Thank you for taking the dog out. Thank you for doing this. The small things really matter because when they're ignored, those small things become weeds and resentment that grow and that separate the two of you. Now, the third thing, we did an entire episode on this. I call it get on the fun bus. I'm serious in therapy. One thing that I said over and over to Chris is this, our life is too serious. Man, I am so sick and tired of talking about all this serious shit.

 

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I am tired of the problems I, I'm tired of just feeling like life is a grind. We need to have more fucking fun. And the thing about fun, and we talked about this on the episode about having fun with your family around the holidays, is you're not having fun unless you plan to have fun. I think we all make the mistake of thinking that, oh, fun has to be spontaneous. No, when you were little, your parents planned all the fun shit you did. And so you got to get serious about inserting fun again. In fact, I want to share a story with you. This is how important this is and how this simple concept infuses a dead relationship with new energy. It infuses that roommate syndrome that you may be feeling with this new rhythm and fun that can happen. Instead of that slow quitting, you can pick up the fun again and start to reinvest in each other.

 

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And I'm telling you right now, the more that you can bring fun back into your relationship just like you did when you were dating in the beginning, remember those days, there's a reason why dating is fun, because you're planning fun things to do. Just this past weekend, we had flown from southern Vermont to Northern California to go to a business meeting. And we had 90 minutes before we had to get to the start of this business meeting. And as we're driving from the San Francisco Airport, I'm like, oh my God, have you ever seen the Redwood Forest? I think Muir Woods is right here. Neither one of us had never been there. So we pull off the highway, it is four 15 at night, the Mirror Woods National Forest is closing. In 45 minutes, there is a dark looming rain crowd cloud coming and it looks like it's about to rain horizontally.

 

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We drive straight to Muir Woods with 30 minutes to spare. We were the only ones there. It was so fun. And there were this dark, cloudy sky. So it felt like we were in a Hobbit movie. We hadn't planned it. It was so fun and it reminded me we need to do more of that. So the fastest way to create more energy, go see a great movie, go exercise or hike together. Take dancing lessons, cook something new, check out a concert, head to a theme park, ride a roller coaster, go skinny dipping. It doesn't matter what you do. Do something that you used to do when you were dating. Just make it fun. And what if your partner doesn't want to do any of these fun things? Total bump on the log. Alright, well, when we come back, I have somebody who's struggling with that and we're going to hear her question next. Alright, welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins and we're talking about the things that I have learned after being married for 26 years and working with a marriage therapist with my husband for the past two years. And so we've covered a couple of them and now I want to address a question that I am getting a lot. And this one comes from a listener named Jen.

 

Jen (00:39:55):

Hey Mel, it's Jen. How do we continue to move forward through the change process with a partner who's not willing to move forward too, or at least encourage you? There's a huge gap coming and it's really scary. Thanks so much, Mel. We appreciate everything that you do.

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So if you're with somebody that doesn't want to do the things that you want to do, they're not interested in having fun. For example, let's say my husband really wanted to go to a dude ranch. I personally have zero interest in doing that. I do not want to move forward with that idea. I once went to a dude ranch to celebrate my dad's 70th birthday and I got bucked off a horse and broke my leg and my tailbone not interested in that. However, it is important if you want to go the distance. I believe this so much that you are able to do things on your own and you were supported in that. So it's very different to say that your partner doesn't want to be the plus one in your professional dancing career, or they don't want to be the plus one in your desire to scale Mount Kilimanjaro.

 

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That's cool. You should pursue things separately from one another. You should have friends that you go off and do things with. You should have goals and hobbies that are yours alone. But I don't think that's what you're asking. I think what you're asking is what do I do if I want to work on this? But my husband will not go to therapy. My husband will not address the problems. My partner or wife will not do the work. If you're in that situation where you're willing and you love this person and they refuse to go to therapy, it's not going to work. You can go to therapy alone, but you will not be working on your marriage. You'll be working on yourself. And yes, therapy will change you for the better and it might just change some of your habits and your mindset. So that changes the dynamic in your marriage.

 

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But to me, that's really a marriage of enduring. It's a marriage that you're surviving with somebody that's not willing to meet you halfway. And when you're in a relationship and the other person won't work on it, what's going to happen is, and I've seen this happen over and over and over again, is the one person who's willing to go to therapy, who's willing to look in the mirror, who's willing to work on themselves, you know what they tend to do? They work themselves to a new level. And right on out of that marriage, that's what happens because if you don't continue to grow with somebody, you're going to grow to resent 'em.

 

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And that is a scary place. But my only kind of recommendation is you got to keep asking. You got to work on yourself. And at some point there will become a time where you're going to say, it's not negotiable. In order for me to stay in this relationship, you have to be able to do X, Y, Z. And if you can't do those things, then I can't stand this because you're not willing to work on it. And I hope it doesn't come to that. Now, another thing that has made a big difference in our relationship in the last couple of years bringing us much closer together is reversing roles. So this is not some sort of thing you're going to do in the bedroom, although you can, this is not the thing that I'm referring to, although maybe Chris and I should try that. 

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The more I made Chris feel really concerned that if he tried to do those things, I wouldn't like what he did. And so my busyness, my proactiveness, my anxiety about it, my just get it done, get it done, get it done, get it done. It literally made his silence and his thinking worse because there was no room for him to do anything. And second, and here's where the real kicker came, I started to feel like everything was always up to me. And that if I didn't do it, nobody would do it. And it's funny because this dynamic that I created because of my sort of anxious and go-getter nature, literally was the reason why this happened. I would do everything and then be like, why the hell are you doing something? Why is it always me doing something? And then Chris would go like, well, because you're always doing something and I never have time to do something and I would like to do something, but you've already done that thing.

 

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And so we were just locked in this, we were physically together, but having a massive disconnection in our emotional experience of being together. And that theme showed up over and over and over again in therapy. In fact, when Dr. Cooper said to us, you guys are great at transaction, you're sequestered emotionally. That's exactly what he meant. That you're great at doing all this shit, Mel, and you're great at doing all your shit, Chris, but you're in your own corners emotionally and you're not aware of how one another is feeling. So how are we changing that? Well, there's a lot of slowing down. I'm learning. You are changing a relationship for the better because what you're really changing in your relationship when you change it for the better is you are breaking apart the old patterns and you are replacing them with new ways of showing up.

 

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And so again, it's like habits that you need to break and replace and a muscle that you need to wrap. And so me personally, I'm working on stepping back instead of just racing ahead full throttle. And I am giving Chris the lead on planning and organizing. I mean, the man does design and lead men's retreats for crying out loud. So for example, when our anniversary came up, normally I would pick what we're going to do. I would do all this kind of stuff. And I also noticed that I have this propensity to be like, oh no, that's okay. You don't have to get anything. Oh, no, no, no, I don't need anything. Let's not do presents this year. And then I'd be pissed off that there were no presents. So the poor guy couldn't win. I told you I was the asshole in this relationship.

 

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So I said to Chris, why don't you just take the reins? Don't even tell me what we're doing. And it was incredible. He surprised me and booked this place that was literally less than an hour away from us in southern Vermont. We took a few days off to just unplug and eat phenomenal food and sleep without the dog waking us up at five 30 in the morning. And Chris surprised me. It was on our 26th wedding anniversary on that first night with this stunning ring and vows that he had written out. And the ring was really insane because Chris had not given me a piece of jewelry that he had picked out and bought for me since our engagement ring, I'm going to say that again. In 26 years, Chris had not picked out and given me a piece of jewelry since our engagement ring.

 

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I had always pointed things out and told him what to get. And again, managed that. And what had happened is a year ago we were deep in therapy and I was out in Vegas to give a speech and Chris had come with me. And as a lark, one night before we were about to pull into the elevators at the hotel, we walked into this jewelry store and I tried on this crazy ring, and little did I know Chris had called the store after we left Vegas, got the details and had a jeweler back home make it. And he had been holding onto it for months, waiting for the right time to give it to me. Now, I of course had nothing to give to him, but it was incredible. And after that experience, I nicknamed him the trip leader because I realized that the moments in life that I feel the safest and the most in love with him are not when he is giving me jewelry.

 

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It's when he is the leader. He is blazing the trail when we're hiking, he's setting up camp when we're camping, he is really doing what he does best, which ironically is planning. In fact, he's so good at it. I might never ever plan a thing again. And one other thing I want to say about that, when our 25th wedding anniversary hit, things were so bad between us, we didn't do anything. I mean, imagine making it to 25 years and being in a state in your marriage where you're like, I don't even feel like celebrating. We have so much work to do to find our way back to one another after all the shit that we have been through these past couple years and how far apart we feel from one another and how much resentment has built up. And for him, how much shame and regret.

 

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And for me, shame and regret too that on our 25th wedding anniversary, we didn't do anything. We didn't celebrate. We didn't post about it, we didn't toast. We just let the day come and we let the day go. And so for us to get to a point a year later where he and I have been working hard to truly address the things that went sideways and to hear one another and to be interested in one another's experience and feelings and be interested in showing up and changing, that's what we were actually celebrating. That's why there were new vows. And that's what's possible when both of you are willing to do the work. And so the fifth thing is you got to ask for what you need. It's taken me 20 some years to just ask for what I need. This is a novel idea, but instead of being pissed off at your partner, why not just ask for what you need?

 

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It's a lot easier than being angry and annoyed all the time. And I think a lot of us get into trouble. This is that sort of slow quiet quitting that I was talking about because we show up in a relationship and we expect our partner to behave the same way we wish they would, and we don't ever fully communicate what we actually need, and they don't ever fully communicate what they need. I gave you the example of us being married for 20 years and me not even knowing that Chris prefers to be intimate in the morning, never talked about it. That's dumb. Why not just talk about it? It just is so obvious. I'll give you another example. I love flowers. I mean, I love, love, love flowers. I have parents that turned a wooded plot of land in suburban west Michigan into this gorgeous, gorgeous perennial garden.

 

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And I just love flowers. It reminds me of my childhood. I love taking care of them. I love growing them, and I love buying myself flowers. Nothing makes me happier than going to the grocery store. And if I see a little bouquet of tulips or daffodils, I mean, I'm talking $3, $4. You don't have to buy the roses. I just love having fresh flowers in my house. And when Chris goes to the grocery store and he buys a bundle of tulips for me, it's like, oh my God, you were thinking about me. And you know this about me. It took me a long time to tell Chris that. Do you know what was happening? Instead, for years, I would travel. I would take off on a Monday to go give a bunch of speeches. I'd return home on a Friday like a lot of you do that travel for work that are road warriors out there.

 

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And I would come home and you know what would be on the kitchen counter when I got home, a vase full of the dead flowers that I had bought for myself that nobody in the family had bothered to pull out of the vase while I was gone. And when I would walk in and see those dead flowers, that was a sign to me that nobody even thought about me while I was gone. Nobody was expecting me to come home tonight. Nobody was excited for me to come home. And so one day I said to Chris, it would mean a lot to me if when I come home from a business trip, or hell, whenever you go to the grocery store, if you just picked up flowers. Because when I see I'm talking grocery store flowers, people, I'm not talking go to the florist. 

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One of the things that I've learned about my husband, Chris, it's been a reminder really. And this is one of those things that happens when you really slow down and you get present with the person, whether it's your spouse or your partner or a friend, is that my husband was just, he's just like a really nice guy. There's not a mean bone in Christopher Robbins body. And I get so worked up in my own shit that I forget that I just forget that he's not out to be an asshole. He's not trying to screw me over. He's not some dickhead that's doing the, he's just a nice guy who's doing his best. And see, I think we forget that if you deep down still love the person that you're with, but there's all this crap that's built up, find your way to anchor there. Assume good intent.

 

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Assume that they didn't mean to use that tone of voice, that they didn't mean to frustrate you, that they didn't mean to fail at whatever they failed at, that they didn't mean assume good intent. Remember the person that you fell in love with because I believe that person is still deep down in there. But any relationship, whether it's a friendship or a family relationship or a love relationship that goes the distance, there's shit that builds up. But the person who they are at their core, that doesn't change. That doesn't change. And so if your response to me saying, assume good intent is, oh Christ Mel, I mean, and you're starting to make a case about the person you're with, there's your answer, get out. If you can't even admit that at their core, this is a good person, this is a nice person, then get out.

 

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Because you're with somebody that's not a nice person. You're more committed to making your case and being right about this than you are about seeing something deeper that's worth working for. And to me, that's the bottom line because that's what I've learned through these past challenging years and at times, very painful changes in years that we've been through, that if you're both willing to look a little deeper and remind yourself of why you loved them in the first place, if you're both willing to look in the mirror and work on selves and your relationship, you can work through anything you really can. You can get through some horrific things. You can get through things that seem insurmountable, whether it is addiction or the death of a loved one or cheating or bankruptcy. You can get through all kinds of things if you're both willing to work on yourselves and your relationship.

 

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If you're willing to remember that deep down you're with somebody that is a good person at heart, that maybe lost their way, that your relationship is a living, breathing, organic thing, a place where you're either going to grow or you're going to wither and die, you got to care for it. You got to tend to it. You got to shower it with kindness and genuine interest and support. And please, dear God, can we start having some fucking fun I mean, let's just stop waiting for another couple to invite you over and start throwing some dinner parties and some dance parties and some playlists and have some fun. Maybe it's that we've all gotten a little too serious. Save the serious talk for your therapy sessions and bring the fun to the rest of your life. Bring your inner life to the surface, and I'm telling you, your connection will not grow, but it will also grow strong.

 

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And in case no one else tells you today, I hope that your partner or your friend tells you this, but in case they don't, I'm going to tell you I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life and better relationships. And how about you start putting what I just shared with you to work right now. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.