Episode: 193
How To Make Your Life Exciting Again
with Dr. Tali Sharot, PhD
Learn a simple tool you can use to make your life fun, joyful, and energizing again.
Understand why your passions fade and how to reignite them with actionable strategies.
Dr. Tali Sharot is a behavioral neuroscientist. She is here to teach you the groundbreaking science and research about how you can start feeling excitement about your life again.
Dr. Sharot teaches you very specific, tactical things you can do to improve the experience of your everyday life.
Listen on:
Maybe life isn’t boring. Maybe you’ve gotten boring.
Mel Robbins
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:00):
What is habituation?
Dr. Tali Sharot (00:01):
It's basically our tendency to respond less and less and less to things that are constant or that change very gradually or frequent. So for example, an easy example, you jump into a pool, it's really cold, but you tend to get used to it. After a few minutes, it's less cold. Why are people less happy in midlife? It is the least amount of change, right? If you think about it, when you're a kid, things are changing all the time. I mean, you are changing. You're growing, right? You are learning. Then you're in the twenties, you're trying different things, you're trying different partners, you're trying different professions, and then comes midlife and things are kind of similar. Most people kind of stay in the same place.
Mel Robbins (00:37):
You literally just explained the midlife crisis through the lens of neuroscience. Hey, it's your friend, Mel. I am so glad you're here with me today. It is always such an honor to spend some time together and I want to start by acknowledging you for taking the time to listen to something that is going to help you create a better life. And I know our conversation today is going to do that. If you're a new listener, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I'm so happy you're here with me and you're not going to believe what I did last night. I mean, just take a guess. What do you think I did last night? You're never going to guess this one. Well, last night my husband Chris and I pitched a tent in our backyard. We grabbed a blowup mattress, a couple of comforters, two pillows, and we slept out under the stars in our backyard here in Vermont.
(01:32):
It was a full moon. It was absolutely incredible. And we used to do this kind of stuff all the time when we were first dating. I mean, we were constantly planning fun adventures and camping and doing cool things outside. And we've been married now, my God, it's going to be 28 years this year. Holy smokes. And the other day, Chris turned to me and said, Hey, Mel, in a couple nights it's going to be a full moon. Weather looks good. You have any interest in sleeping outside in a tent? I was like, oh my God, yes. And so we did. Here I was this morning after sleeping in the tent last night, I was having my coffee in the house. And if you're watching, you can probably tell based on the fact that I have greasy hair, I've pulled it back in a ponytail and I'm wearing my red flannel that I look like I was camping because I was.
(02:22):
Because I was. But here I am, we're out of the tent. I'm standing in my kitchen. I got my mug of coffee in my hand, and I started to wonder, that was so fun. When did life get boring?
Mel Robbins (02:35):
Why don't I do this more often? Then it dawned on me, Mel, maybe life isn't boring. Maybe you've gotten boring. I want you to really think about that. Maybe the reason why you're not having enough fun in your life or your relationship or work is because you've gotten a little too used to your routine and that's made you a little boring. Well, today that's what you and I are going to talk about with a neuroscientist from MIT and University College London who says, habits and routines have a hidden cost. They can make your life feel boring, and she's here to tell you what to do about it.
(03:15):
There are really fun ways that you can shake up your life, your work, your relationships, and even a really fun thing that research says you need to do to shake up your vacation. Aren't you so excited for this? I know you are, and so I'm thrilled that you're here with me on YouTube and here's where we're going next. We are going to go down to our studios in Boston for this incredible conversation. Are you ready to shake it up? Awesome. Let's do it. Welcome, Dr. Sharot to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so thrilled that you are here.
Dr. Tali Sharot (03:44):
I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Mel Robbins (03:47):
So Dr. Sharot, you have uncovered this link between change and experiencing happiness and joy in your life. And so many of us fear change, and yet what you're finding is that our ability to change and pushing ourselves to change and experiencing new things in our life is foundational to you enjoying your life and having moments of joy. And so you've been researching something called habituation, which is a phenomenon that our brain naturally does, and it's also going to help us understand why pushing yourself to change and grow and learn new things is a critical part of your life and you enjoying your life. So can you tell us about habituation?
Dr. Tali Sharot (04:37):
So habitation, it's really a fundamental process, A fundamental rule that governs how our brain works and every neuro in it. And it's basically our tendency to respond less and less and less to things that are constant or that change very gradually or are frequent. So for example, an easy example, you walk into a bakery, there's the smell of the baked goods and the cake, and studies show that within 20 minutes you cannot detect the smell any longer. The olfactory neurons in your brain stop responding because the smell is constant around you. So very fast they will actually stop and you won't be able to smell it. You probably had this with perfume. When you first buy perfume and you put it on, it's really salient. Next day a little bit less for a little bit less a month goes by and you can't smell your own perfume.
Mel Robbins (05:25):
It's so true.
Dr. Tali Sharot (05:26):
Yeah. So that's habitation. Or you jump into a pool, it's really cold, but you tend to get used to it. After a few minutes, it's less cold. And so just as you habituate to smells or to a temperature, you also habituate to more complicated things in your life or in society. So for example, you get used to, there's a new romance, it's really exciting, but over time it gets less exciting. So you have less of a reaction, less of a physiological reaction, less of an emotional reaction, but you also get used to the bad stuff. Breakup, you get used to that. There's less a reaction to that. You get used to the view of the ocean, and you get used to pollution too, meaning you're able to detect it less. You're able to see it even less. You get used to a new job, to a promotion, you react to that yet less you habituate to that. You can habituate also to losing a job. And so because of habitation, we might have some great things in our life like a loving relationship or a comfortable home or interesting job, but they don't elicit as much joy on a daily basis as you'd expect them to
Mel Robbins (06:39):
Just because you're used to it,
Dr. Tali Sharot (06:41):
Right? You don't notice them anymore. You could have a wonderful comfortable home, which when you first bought it, you were so excited and you kind of really kind of noticed everything, but now you're there every day.
Dr. Tali Sharot (06:52):
It doesn't elicit as much of a reaction. The same thing with a job. When you first got the job, you're like, oh, you're just amazed that you could do what you could do, but now you're doing it every day, you're doing it. So it has less. Doesn't mean the people don't appreciate at all, but less so over time. And it's a similar thing for the bad stuff in life. So there could be bad things around us, societal things like sexism or racism or could be cracks in your personal relationships or inefficiencies in the workplace. But if they've been there for a long time, we stop noticing them. We just kind of get used to them and we stop. And if we stop noticing them, we're less motivated to change.
Mel Robbins (07:31):
So how does this impact our happiness? It seems like it could have good and bad implications, and I think it's really interesting that your brain itself is reacting to something that you're getting used to. So it's not like you're some sort of jerk that's just zoning out. It's that your brain, in your words, this is habituation that you're becoming really familiar with your partner or with where you work or your neighborhood. How does this impact our happiness?
Dr. Tali Sharot (08:03):
Well, it means that the good things around us can create less happiness on a daily basis. So the stuff that's really good and everyone has some good stuff around us, again, it could be a relationship, it could be a comfortable home, but those things don't elicit as much happiness. So that has a negative impact on our happiness. However, on the flip side, if something bad happens, even if it's really, really bad, a loss of a loved one, we habituate to that as well to the bad stuff in life, we habituate and it could be a good thing. We don't want to feel like a breakup. We don't want to feel that pain that you feel at the very beginning. You want to habituate so then you can move forward. So that's good.
Mel Robbins (08:52):
That's very good.
Dr. Tali Sharot (08:54):
But on the other hand, there could be some bad things that have been there for a long time and they're kind of like in the background. And because of habituation, we don't really notice them. And that's not great because then we are not motivated to change. And it turns out if you do notice and you try to change and you're successful, well that will enhance your wellbeing and your happiness.
Mel Robbins (09:15):
Well, I think that's what the thing that's super cool about your research is that there is a direct connection between the happiness and joy that you feel and the amount that you're willing to train change and what is happening in your brain when you experience something new.
Dr. Tali Sharot (09:29):
So really, our brain, you can think about it as a front page of a newspaper. It cares about what's new, what just happened. It doesn't really care that much about the old. And it makes sense if you think about it in an evolution kind of way, and your ability to adapt when something new is happening, your brain needs to process. Maybe you need to react, right? Maybe it's threatening, but after it's been there for a while and you're fine, well, we really need to keep our resources. The neurons need to be ready for the next new thing that's coming, so we're ready to react to that. And so new is what we are noticing the most and what we're acting to the most. And just to give you a fun example,
(10:14):
I was working with a tourism company where they wanted to know what makes people happiest on vacation and when they're happiest on vacation. So we went to the resorts and we surveyed people and we asked them, Hey, what was the best bit of the vacation? And there was one words that they repeated more than any other word. And it was first, the first view of the ocean. The first cocktail that I had, the first sun castle that I built. The first was new and exciting. Now the second view of the ocean, that was good too, but it wasn't quite as good as the first and the second cocktail, fifth cocktail was quite good, but it wasn't good as the first cocktail. And that's because of habituation,
Dr. Tali Sharot (10:53):
Right, we feel less. And the other interesting thing was when we just looked at the data and we wanted to see when were they the happiest, we found that they were happiest 40 free hours into a vacation. So 43 hours gave you time to unpack and really focus on the fun. But from that point on, fun started dwindling over time because we habituated you were still happy on day 8, 7, 6, and five, but not as happy as you were 43 hours in because you have started to habituate to the environment, to the activities.
Mel Robbins (11:28):
So how do we apply this research around vacations to our own life?
Dr. Tali Sharot (11:32):
So I think it suggests that maybe we want to have more frequent vacations, but shorter ones. So instead of going away for a couple of weeks, you might actually go for a long weekend a few times. Now, sometimes it's not possible if you're going far, but what that means is you'll have more of those 43 hour peaks, you will have more of those firsts. And you know what else you will have? You will have the anticipation of the vacation. This is what I didn't tell you. I told you that the happiest time is 43 hours into the vacation, but I didn't actually tell you that the really, really happiest time is a day before vacation.
(12:08):
So there's a study that was conducted where people who were about to go on vacation were asked every day of the week before vacation, how happy they were every day of the vacation for a week, how happy they were, and then every day when they came back after vacation, how happy they were. And it turns out that people are happiest before they even step on the plane. So the day before vacation, they're still in their office working on their computers, but in their mind they're on vacation. And in their mind, it's quite wonderful when they go on vacation, it's good, but it's not as good as it was in their mind the day before. The anticipation of good things is what really makes people happy. So if you have more vacations, you have more of those anticipations and you have more of the afterglow as well.
Mel Robbins (12:53):
Well, you know what? There's huge implications if you take this even out of the context of vacations and you just say, what are things that I look forward to, whether it's a date on the calendar eight months from now where I'm going to get together with my favorite family members, or it is some day that I'm taking off of work to take a class or it is some cool thing. I'm going, it sounds kind of dumb, but I'm going on a walk this weekend with my husband and it is a guided walk looking for owls. This must mean I'm in my fifties, but I am so excited for this thing. And so I can see how even just being proactive about putting things in your calendar out in the future to look forward to is a way to hack happiness in your life.
Dr. Tali Sharot (13:46):
Now. Absolutely. I call these anticipatory events. These are events that we have on our calendar. They haven't happened yet, but they're making you happy at the moment. And in fact, this is why when you ask people about which days, which is a favorite day of the week, people prefer Friday by far more than Sunday because Friday brings with this the anticipation of everything that they had planned for the weekend, whether it is a hike to find owls or whatever it is. But Sunday, you might be out hiking and looking for owls, but you have the anxiety of the workweek. So indeed, anticipation is something that's really, really important. And so have that holiday booked, have that activity booked. It can be a night out, it could be a hike. Very simple things, and that makes us happy at the moment.
Mel Robbins (14:41):
What's so interesting about this research that I really like is that you got no choice in this. Your brain is literally filing away information based on your familiarity with it. And so what is the implication for your relationship? Because as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about the research on vacation, which I think we can all relate to,
Mel Robbins (15:02):
I'm also thinking, oh, well probably right around day 43 or week 43, as you're dating somebody and you're wondering why is this person no longer being proactive? Why is this person no longer seeming to make an effort? Why is this no longer feeling as exciting? Is that habituation?
Dr. Tali Sharot (15:24):
Yeah. So habitation has a lot to do with this, right? And in fact, so if you listen to Esther Perel, the well-known relationship expert, she did surveys and research where she asked people, Hey, when were you most attracted to your partner? These are people who have been together for a while, married couples. And she found that they said two things. Either they said I was most attracted to my partner when I went away and came back. Maybe I was on a business trip, I was away for a weekend and I came back. Which makes perfect sense because what you're doing when you're leaving a situation and then coming back is you're habituating. What does this habituating mean? It means that you remove that thing, you stepped out of the bakery for 10 minutes, now you're coming back. Now your neurons are going to start responding maybe not as much as the very, very first that when you enter the bakery, but if there's a large enough break, then you dis habituate and you start responding. And that's the first thing she found. We have actually, so on the cover of our book, if you open it up, there's a little visual illusion, which is colors, clouds of colors,
(16:36):
And a fixation point in the middle.
(16:38):
And if you fixate on that fixation point and you don't move your eyes at all, what happens is the colors suddenly become gray. And if you do it really, really well, actually it just becomes white. And why does that happen? Because the input to every specific neuron, if you're not moving your eyes, doesn't change. It's the same, the same colors are getting to the same exact neurons. And so the neurons at the beginning, they're active, they're like color, color, color, but they're like, well, color's not changing. I'm going to stop responding. So now it's gray, and finally it's white. All you need to do is move your eyes like that, just move them for a second, and then the color immediately comes back because now different neurons are getting different signals and now they're reacting again.
Mel Robbins (17:22):
So we're putting this up on the screen for everyone who's watching on YouTube right now. And you're going to start by simply staring at the black plus sign in the middle of the page. And Dr. Tali said, we got to do it for 30 seconds and just try to focus only on the black plus sign. And as you stare at the black plus sign, you're going to notice that the color fades away. It's crazy. But the second that you kind of adjust your eyes and look away for a second from the black, all the color comes rushing back.
Mel Robbins (18:02):
So I want you to keep watching it right now and see what happens. Just look at the black plus sign. Just a couple more seconds. Holy cow. That's crazy. So basically that's ha situation. When you stare at your spouse or your work or your life for too long, it goes gray. And that's why you got to shake things up to bring all the shimmer in the color back. Cool.
Dr. Tali Sharot (18:30):
So that's this habituation, right?
Mel Robbins (18:32):
Gotcha.
Dr. Tali Sharot (18:32):
That kind of same principle. Of course, the actual neural mechanism is not exactly the same, but the principle is the same. Your partner has been there for a while, everything's the same. We kind of don't notice, don't respond, don't think we leave for a bit. We come back and now colors. So that's the first thing she found. And the second thing is related, which she found that people say they're most attracted to the partner when they're in a novel new situation. For example, the partner is talking to some strangers or the partner is on the stage doing something. And again, this is a form of habituation. You're seeing your partner in a different way because they are in a different circumstance. So now it's not the same old, same old, right?
Mel Robbins (19:17):
Yeah,
Dr. Tali Sharot (19:17):
It's something new.
Mel Robbins (19:19):
When does habituation pose the biggest, I think, threat to upsetting what might be otherwise a nice life? Because I could see how you getting used to your neighborhood, you getting used to your, I'll just take the example of a kitchen. Your kitchen's perfectly fine. And yet you probably spend a lot of time on social media looking at kitchens and thinking about a kitchen renovation. And then you walk into another person's house and you're like, oh, we should have a coffee bar. We should do, what if I did white cabinets? And now all of a sudden you're looking at your kitchen, which has been perfectly fine, and you no longer like it. You kind of hate it. And so does habitation make you start to reject or not the things in your life from relationships to your job, to your neighborhood, to your kitchen? Is that part of the problem with this if you don't realize it's going on?
Dr. Tali Sharot (20:11):
Yeah, because it brings you less joy and as a result you want something different. And I think your example is great because there's two things here. One is it's something that you had before, which you fought was fantastic. The kitchen you fought was fantastic before, but now is not that exciting, not that fun. And also the other thing that nice that you said is like, well, I go to another person's house. I think their kitchen is great, and they probably come to yours. And for them they think like, oh, the kitchen is great. Or they think like, oh, she has a wonderful life. And it's potentially the case that you have the same thing, but you've had it the same for a while. And that's why we're looking for diversity or new things. And it's not all badge. I mean, again, it's like two sides of the coin. Maybe we don't need to redo our kitchen every couple of years, but that kind of need to progress, that's not necessarily just a bad thing that keeps us moving
Mel Robbins (21:17):
Forward. Yes,
Dr. Tali Sharot (21:19):
But it's like a delicate balance.
Mel Robbins (21:22):
How do you balance it? Because I can think about an example where we all are chasing the next greatest thing. We're chasing something that looks better or something that's going to be this, and we're kind of going after that newness, thrill. And it's very clear that there's both the need to change, but there's also the fact that constantly chasing it and using an example of what, oh, well, their significant other does a lot of that, and my partner doesn't do that anymore. Is it making us unhappy to constantly seek the change or how do you balance it?
Dr. Tali Sharot (21:58):
Yeah, so I mean, it is definitely a balance, which is why I think it's important to kind of think about how do we get some joy back from what we have? And there's two ways to do that. And one of the ways is what we talked about, which is a break. You probably notice that if you go on a work thing for a couple of days or maybe even more, maybe three days or a week, and when you come back, it seems like everything has res sparkled, even your kitchen. Yes, I'd imagine that if you are away for enough time, you come back and the kitchen has sparkled, right? It suddenly does look
Mel Robbins (22:40):
Great. So does
Dr. Tali Sharot (22:40):
Chris. And I think he looks at Chris is like, you're not so bad after all, and the home and everything else. It's definitely something that happens. In fact, we stole the word sparkled from Julia Roberts. So she has a quote where she says that her normal day is she gets up, she takes the kids to school, she comes back, she maybe goes on a bike ride, maybe with her husband, she has lunch, then it's time to pick them up and take them to their afterschool activities. And she says, well, if I'd done that every day for months and months and months, it would just be boring. But I don't because I go away to film or whatever she does. And then she comes back, and then it has sparkled, right? Yes. Sparkling, everything seems like she says, it seems like there's pixie dust on it.
Mel Robbins (23:30):
Yes.
Dr. Tali Sharot (23:31):
And you can say, well, Julia Roberts is not the average human being, right? Correct. She's quite a privileged person. But I think she's talking here about something that we can relate to, which is if you take a little break and you come back, then your life looks a little bit right? You dissipate to some degree, maybe it doesn't last very long, but you can see things a little bit differently.
Mel Robbins (23:53):
Istic. Do you have recommendations for how a person who's not leaving to go film a movie could do that if they're in a job that they go to all the time and they are in just this cycle of same person, same job, same neighborhood, same group of friends. How do you use this research to sparkle some pixie dust on your life?
Dr. Tali Sharot (24:15):
So two things. First is you could probably take a break to most people. They could still take a little break. You could still go away for a few days and come back. Now, let's say you can't do that. Lori Santos, who is a professor at Yale suggests closing your eyes and imagining your life without these things. Imagine your life without that wonderful kitchen. Imagine your life without the partner, without the job that you have. And then when you open your eyes again,
Dr. Tali Sharot (24:45):
Well, things kind of sparkle a little bit, right? That's true. So that's a good little kind of exercise to do.
Mel Robbins (24:50):
I actually like that because I think the instinct is instead of closing your eyes and imagining your life without the person you're complaining about or without the kitchen that you have that is great and works fine and without the neighborhood you live in, that we instead look out instead of in, and we go, oh, well, I like the way that relationship over there works better. And I like the way that kitchen over there looks better. And then you bring it back to your life and pound on the people that are there, instead of taking a step to close your eyes and go, well, what would my life look like if they weren't here? Now obviously if you're happy, then you got to make some changes, but if you feel that little ache, then what do you do? You just open your eyes and sprinkle a little fairy dust on 'em. How does this impact our sex life?
Dr. Tali Sharot (25:49):
So again, if we go back to Esther Perez's research, her recommendations is breaks or novelty, putting
Mel Robbins (25:59):
Yourself Well, a lot of us are already taken breaks, so that's not what
Dr. Tali Sharot (26:01):
Putting yourself, putting yourself, yeah,
Dr. Tali Sharot (26:05):
She means, I think breaking away from that person for a little bit. It doesn't mean like a break in a relationship.
Mel Robbins (26:10):
No, I meant a break from sex. There's a lot of us in the menopause years that are like, we need to get more adventurous. So either take a break in terms of,
Dr. Tali Sharot (26:20):
Or a novelty
Mel Robbins (26:21):
Or introduce a novelty.
Dr. Tali Sharot (26:23):
And so the novelty is a really interesting thing because, okay, so I was talking about breaks before. And then the second thing you could do to spice up your relationship, but in general to spice up your life, is to introduce variety. So diversify. And I don't know that she necessarily is giving examples just about what's happening in the bedroom while you're in the bedroom, because I think her point is that if you do things in a way that's different outside, so once in a while when she said, oh, you see your partner on the stage, or you see them doing something that you've never seen that before, what her research suggests, that enhances attraction.
(27:09):
But I think the message of variety and novelty is important for our life in general. So people who have a more diverse life, they've maybe lived in different places, they work in different types of projects, they interact with different type of people, they tend to have a more psychologically rich life. So I think we could definitely do that. Whatever kind of life you have, you can actually shake things up a little bit. It can be something small. How do you commute to work? What route do you take to work? It could be small like that, or it could be like maybe take a course and it could be something online. So maybe you don't have the money to pay for a new, but take up a new skill or a new listen to a new podcast. So try to change things or maybe start talking to someone or befriend someone who's different from the normal kind of people that you tend to interact. Even their personality is not the type that you usually are interacting with. And by diversifying, we are doing a few things. We are disa habituating because now we have different inputs that we're not used to. We also, as we talked about before, putting ourself in a context of learning. And that's important. Learning is always good. We enjoy learning.
Mel Robbins (28:28):
Well boost your happiness based on the research.
Dr. Tali Sharot (28:30):
Right? Exactly.
Mel Robbins (28:31):
I have another question about the research, which is when does habituation and the fact that you're now used to your life feel the most overwhelming?
Dr. Tali Sharot (28:43):
So I think it is when things are not changing for a prolonged time, and we see that in our midlife. And so there's this interesting thing called the U shape of happiness. So happiness is quite high in kids and teenagers, and then it goes down, down, down and reaches rock bottom in your midlife, but then it starts going up again and actually remains quite high until the last couple of years of life. And again, this U shape is on average, so there's thousands of individuals, and we're looking for a trend and data from thousands of individuals. It doesn't mean that for every person, midlife will be the bottom part, and you'll be happy in the edges, but that's in general. And so why are people less happy in midlife? That could be many reasons, but one reason is it is the least amount of change.
Dr. Tali Sharot (29:33):
If you think about it as when you're a kid, things are changing all the time. I mean, you are changing, you're growing, right? You are learning. It's like a most amount of change. Then you're in the, you're trying different things. You're trying different partners, you're trying different professions. Maybe you're in university or in college, you're learning a lot. And then comes midlife and things are kind of similar. Most people kind of stay in the same place. Maybe people have kids, you're mostly on average, maybe with the same partner. You may be at the top of your game professionally, but you're kind of maintaining, right? You're not kind of looking up, you're not looking sideways. You're mostly just maintaining. And so that's at least amount of learning, the least amount of change. Now, counterintuitively, at an older age, once the kids get out of the house and maybe you're retired, in fact you're starting to change again. Now you need to learn, how am I going to live my life? It's a totally different life now. And so it could seem like it'll be overwhelming, and maybe it is at the beginning, but that causes people to start learning again.
Mel Robbins (30:37):
That is so cool. You literally just explained the midlife crisis and the journey of happiness of the human beings through the lens of neuroscience and the fact that we assimilate to the experiences around us. That's so cool, Dr. Sharot, you do a ton of work with companies and team behavior. And so I was just curious, how can you keep your teams motivated and creative when this habituation creeps in at a job where it's kind of the same thing most days.
Dr. Tali Sharot (31:11):
So you want to induce, inject variety into their daily work as well. And so one thing that companies tend to do well, I dunno if they tend to do sometimes some companies, what they do is they take people and they rotate them through different divisions or get them to work on different types of projects with different types of people. And if you do that, then again, you're creating more change, more learning. This habituation, not only are they learning something from this new division, but then when they go back to their old division, now it's a break. So now they will see their division with new eyes, which means they might appreciate the good things that they kind of habituated to. They might see the bad things that weren't quite salient before because they've been for, and that's a good thing. If I see the bad things, I'm going to try to change them.
(32:00):
And so that will enhance out my wellbeing. But also, it turns out, it also enhances creativity. So it turns out if you change your environment, and it could be even really small changes, like I'm working in my office and now I'm going to work in a coffee shop, or I'm going to walk and maybe have a meeting while walking. It turns out that enhances creativity. So a research by a psychologist by the name of Kayley, Maine, she found that creativity will be boosted
Dr. Tali Sharot (32:30):
After making these changes, just changing our environment. Now that being said, the creativity boost only lasts for six minutes. However, those six minutes can be quite crucial. That could be the time when you come up with this new idea, the new direction. And in fact, if I think about all the times in my life when I had this really important idea, the creative solution, it was never when I was in front of my computer working and trying to think of a solution, it was mostly when I was somewhere else.
(33:03):
So for one example, I was in my office trying to solve this problem. I couldn't solve it. So I decided to go to the gym, left the office, walked to the gym. Gym was quite close. It took me less than six minutes to get there. But on the way is when I suddenly came up with a solution. And I don't know that I necessarily was consciously thinking about it, but I think I had this all the information in my mind, and then I just changed my environment. And that kind of changed something in the way that my brain was processing things and the solution appeared, which was to be a really important kind of breakthrough. That will lead to a lot of what I did after that. And if I think about it every single time, every single time when I had an idea, which would be like, oh, that would be my next book, or that would be my next research direction, or there's some problem that it was in that kind of situation, I was suddenly in a new place. Another one was, I was in a conference listening to these talks. They were super interesting. But then after the conference, I went, and this was in San Francisco, so I went to a vineyard and I was just sitting outside and having a little wine. And then suddenly the idea came based on the knowledge that I already had during the conference. But it was like being in this totally new different environment where the processing happened and the creative idea came about.
Mel Robbins (34:20):
Well, I think a lot of people have the experience of either being out on a walk in the nature or on some vacation or away for the weekend. And that's where people tend to make big decisions and have these breakthroughs because you get a break from your life, which gives you much needed perspective about what's important or what you've always been thinking about.
Mel Robbins (35:42):
So if there were one change or one thing that you hope the person listening would do as a result of this conversation and all of the research, what is one action that somebody could take that you think would make a big difference in their life?
Dr. Tali Sharot (35:03):
One action that you could take that will make a big difference? I think it is try something new. And look, it might make no difference. It depends, but it might make a big difference. So try something new, whether it is, think about something that you want to learn, think about a new skill that you want to have, maybe somewhere that you want to visit. Just something, try a new dish to make. I dunno. I think that would not, it could change your life, right? It could be that of course you think will change your life, but I think most likely what it may do, it would give you this kind of joy of novelty, which then may create a habit of trying new things.
Mel Robbins (35:54):
I love that. And I love to end my interviews with brilliant people like you by giving you an opportunity to just talk directly to the person that is listening. They might be driving a car or unloading the dishwasher or taking you on a walk with them. And I would love to give you the opportunity to just give them any parting words or some sort of message from you.
Dr. Tali Sharot (36:24):
Sure. So we end the book that I wrote together with my co-author, Kassan saying, we end that with a chapter that's called Experiments in Living. So my parting words is Experiment in Living. And the idea here is that you don't really know what's good for your life or for society without doing experiments. Just like in science, I don't know what the ground truth is until I do my experiments. And sometimes it's surprising. And so the idea is that if you do these experiments in living, try things in different ways, try them in new ways. It could be you are actually taking out some stuff from your life. Try to maybe see what happens if you go off social media for a few weeks, see how that impacts you. Maybe you like it, maybe you don't like it. Or maybe it's adding something to your life. Experiments in living allows you to try everything, or not everything, but more things to find out what are the optimal things for me and what doesn't really work.
Mel Robbins (37:27):
I love it. Well, Dr. Tali Sharot, thank you so much for being here. And I also wanted to thank you for spending time with us today. And in case nobody tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you. I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to not only create a better life, but to take Dr. Sharot's words to heart. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. I am so glad that you got to watch that conversation. Aren't you ready to shake things up? You going to go camping tonight? It was so amazing on how small changes are vital for your happiness. And if you love this episode, which of course you did, you are going to love what I'm going to tell you to watch next. But first, please hit subscribe and let me tell you why it is how you can tell me that you really loved this episode. And second, it supports me in bringing you world-class experts and new videos every single day. Okay, awesome. Thanks for subscribing. I really, really, really appreciate. I'm feeling you shaking things up over there. And since you love this episode, you're going to love this first episode that I did with Dr. Tali Sharot, where we talk about what you have wrong about motivation and how you can really motivate someone else or yourself to change any behavior. Check it out.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Dr. Tali Sharot, PhD
Dr. Tali Sharot is a neuroscientist and professor at both University College London and MIT specializing in the neuroscience of decision-making, emotion, and optimism.
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Books
This groundbreaking and “sensational guide to a more psychological rich life” (Angela Duckworth, New York Times bestselling author), based on decades of research, illuminates how we can reignite the sparks of joy, innovate, and recognize where improvements urgently need to be made. The key to this disruption—to seeing, feeling, and noticing again—is change. By temporarily changing your environment, changing the rules, changing the people you interact with—or even just stepping back and imagining change—you regain sensitivity, allowing you to identify more clearly the bad and more deeply appreciate the good.
Resources
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- The New York Times: Laura Vanderkam’s study and how to make more time..
- The New York Times: Why we all need to have more fun
- The New York Times: Do you seek out new experiences?
- Harvard Health: Having a hobby tied to happiness and well-being
- Forbes: A psychologist explains why you need more ‘microadventures’ in 2024
- Columbia: Why you should try something new everyday
- Forbes: Stop. Reflect. Try new things
- The Atlantic: Big dreams and small actions go together.
- Harvard Business Review: The key to a fulfilling career? Variety.
- American Psychological Association: Habituation and the human evoked potential
- Washington Post: Boredom is a warning sign. Here’s what it’s telling you
- Harvard Business Review: It is time to leave your comfort zone
- Esther Perel: Research on relationships and the importance of change
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