Episode: 118
How a Stay-at-Home Mom “With No Experience” Built a $255M Business: Blowouts, Divorces, and the Messy Truth
with Alli Webb
Do you have a good idea, but you think you “have no business being in business”?
The founder of Drybar, Alli Webb, takes you on a riveting tour of how a stay-at-home mom who had ‘no business being in business’ made $255 million in 10 years.
You’ll hear the entire messy truth and all the hard-won advice, from the exciting start of her business to the disastrous ending of her second marriage.
Listen on:
I really believe everything I did in my life uniquely prepared me to sit at the helm of a blow dry empire, unequivocally.
Alli Webb
Featured Clips
Transcript
Alli Webb (00:00):
I really believe everything I did in my life uniquely prepared me to sit at the helm of a blow dry empire,
Mel Robbins (00:05):
A blow dry empire.
Alli Webb (00:07):
It's what Drybar is.
Mel Robbins (00:08):
You got it nailed in business
Alli Webb (00:11):
Put me at the scene. I was like, what do you think people would pay if I came to their house? Maybe 35 or 40 bucks, two 20. Easy peasy. So I posted on Peach Head. I'm a longtime hairstylist. I'm thinking of starting a mobile blowout business where I'll come to your house while your baby is sleeping and blow out your hair. Sure enough, I started getting inundated with emails. Can you come over tomorrow? When can you come over? I was like, damn, I'll be there.
Mel Robbins (00:30):
Let's talk about the messy part because all this came at a very big cost. Well, gosh, where to start your marriage? A couple months ago, I got a text from you. Oh gosh. It was just a short, you probably don't even remember sending this to me. You were in a, we may have to cut this out, dude. You are a successful badass businesswoman who does not need a guy.
Alli Webb (00:53):
The relationship got very fast tracked, which would ultimately cause the demise of that marriage.
Mel Robbins (00:58):
So this is the first time you're talking publicly about divorcing your second husband.
Alli Webb (01:03):
Yep. I jumped into this marriage that had some things in it that weren't right for me. Oh my God, was it worth it?
Mel Robbins (01:12):
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm really excited that you tuned in today because I know you are going to love this episode. How can I say that? Well, let me tell you how I can say it because you have been asking, Mel, can we please get more advice on how you start a business? Can you please give us more advice on how you lean into your ideas and can you please bring us more stories about how a normal person with no prior experience can create a hundred million dollars business? Well, today I am delivering exactly what you asked for. I have another remarkable person here for you to meet. Her name is Allie Webb. She founded a little business here in the US called Dry Bar. It's a blow dry bar where you go and you get a blowout in your hair, and she changed the beauty industry and when she started this idea, she was a 3-year-old stay-at-home mom of two kids who had an itch to get out of the house.
(02:14):
She was not looking to disrupt the beauty industry. She was not looking to create a hundred million dollars brand in her words. You know what she says? I had no business being in business. Well, let me tell you something, she's wrong and you're wrong. If you're telling yourself you have no business being in business, if you're telling yourself you don't have a good idea, you don't know what to do. I'm calling BS and I'm introducing you to Allie Webb, the founder of Drybar. That's not the only company that she has started. She has gone on to start multiple, very successful companies. She has written her first ever book The Messy Truth, where she tells you the whole story of growing this a hundred million dollars business for scratch, the cost of it, the messy things behind, and most importantly, the very simple actionable takeaways that are going to inspire you and get you started on whatever itch it is you need to scratch whatever idea it is that you've been putting off. Today is the day we stop thinking we get messy and we tell you the truth about why you. Yes, you have a hundred million dollars idea in you too. So please help me welcome Allie Webb to the Mel Robbins podcast.
Alli Webb (03:29):
I mean, it's just such an honor to be here. I can't believe it.
Mel Robbins (03:33):
Well, let me just start by saying one thing. I had no business being in business. That's why I wanted to talk to you
(03:42):
Because that is a story and a lot of women tell themselves that story. I have no business being in business. I didn't go to college. I didn't even graduate from high school. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm this, I'm that. I'm the other thing. And the truth is, so many of the most successful people that we all admire had no business going in business because they didn't get an MBA. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you and have everybody hear your story is because so many people listening, 194 countries, so many people listening or watching on YouTube have a desire to start something. And I want you to unpack the whole journey of how you went from a hairdresser that didn't go to college with three young kids who had two young kids that have no business being in business building a hundred million dollars company.
Alli Webb (04:47):
But then there's also the behind the scenes stuff and raising a family and going through divorce and your kid going through rehab and the real messy stuff that happens because we can't separate it all and it's bananas. But I grew up in, God bless my parents. My mom passed away about eight years ago, but it was like, we hope you marry well.
Mel Robbins (05:06):
So I want you to put us at the scene. So where were you in life when your life took a turn toward this small idea? What were you doing? How old were you?
Alli Webb (05:24):
Yeah, well, I moved to New York City when I was about 18. I went to college for a second and I was so lost. I was so lost. The thing that kept coming back to me was like hair. It was right in front of me. I mean, I loved hair. I always loved hair. I would spend hours in the bathroom when I was in high school trying to figure it out. I was just fascinated by it and I didn't even pay attention to that until so many years later when I was like, I think I want to go to beauty school. My brother was the first person I told. I said, I think I want to go to beauty school. And he was like, I think you should. He's like, you're really good with people and you love hair. And I was like, I know I should just do that. And when I told my mom and dad, it was a very different conversation. They were like, really? But I knew to your point, it's like I just knew that was the thing. That was the thing that I loved. And I think that we sometimes feel like it's not cool or it's not this or it's not that. So we don't want to do it. So we want to take this path that everybody thinks we should take.
Mel Robbins (06:16):
It's like, screw that. Well, there's this whole body of research around the fact that if you lean into something you already love, whether it's video games or it's music, that you will be more successful more because you will naturally want to spend more time working at it because you enjoy doing it.
Alli Webb (06:38):
Yeah, it's like that cliche, which I know it's so cliche, but it's like if you love what you do, it doesn't feel like work. That is actually true.
Mel Robbins (06:47):
Yes.
Alli Webb (06:48):
I moved to New York City, I thought I wanted to do something in fashion. I ended up getting into hair and I met my now ex-husband Cameron. When we lived in New York, we got married. I'm very driven when I want something and I wanted babies and I was like 27 wanting kids really bad. I mean, I really wanted to have babies. There's
Mel Robbins (07:06):
Nothing wrong with that. I think that's a beautiful
Alli Webb (07:08):
Thing. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I met Cam, I was jumping around from my career to career you do in your twenties waiting
Mel Robbins (07:15):
To have babies,
Alli Webb (07:16):
Waiting to find my husband and have babies. Truly, I was like, I've always been a big romantic and loved love and wanted kids and all that.
Mel Robbins (07:23):
Fantastic.
Alli Webb (07:24):
We meet when I'm like 26, get married when I'm 27, 28, and all very fast. Landed the plane. Yes, they landed the plane within a year, had our first, and we moved from New York City to LA and I became a stay-at-home mom.
Alli Webb (07:42):
And I just started to kind of around the time where my kids were, about two and four, I started to get the itch to do something for myself. And I was like, when I was in LA I was a stay-at-home mom and I was just starting to get the itch to do something for myself. And I was probably around, I dunno, 33 ish at the time. And because I had so much experience doing hair and blowouts and I was like, I don't want to go back to the salon and cut hair and do all that. And I was like, maybe I should start. I had just moved to LA and I was like, maybe I should start a mobile blowout business. I knew it was expensive to get a blowout in hair salons and it was variable pricing, which drove me crazy. Like, oh, for you it'll be $50 and for your friend with the long thick hair, it'll be 120. You're like, you can't do that.
Mel Robbins (08:19):
Why?
Alli Webb (08:20):
It's such a bait and switch. It says on the window it's like $45 for a haircut or blowout. And then you go in and it's actually another 80 bucks and then you're sitting in the chair and you have to look like the idiot who's like, I can't pay another $40. I just hated that, the whole uncomfortableness.
Mel Robbins (08:37):
So there's a couple things I want to just tease out to make sure that you got, because Allie has already dropped major wisdom as you've been listening to her. Then I want you to notice that when she was talking about working in a salon that the blowout came and somebody came alive when you talked about it, something in you lit up, you spoke faster, you were impassioned, you were energized. And that's an important thing to highlight because for so many of you that listen that are looking for that idea or wanting to do something more, one of the big things that you write about in this book is that it's typically right in front of you that the things that you are energized by that you would do all day long that make you come alive, as dumb as it may sound, or as much as your family might poo pooh it, like what you're going to go to beauty school, what that's really an important piece of data when it comes to finding an idea or finding your calling.
Alli Webb (09:49):
Yeah, I love that you pointed that out. I felt like when we started Drybar again, I was itching to do something. I was excited to get out of the house and do something for myself. But when we opened the door, I mean even when we were in the planning phase, I loved it. I couldn't work enough,
Mel Robbins (10:04):
But didn't start, but hold on a second. It did not start with a retail location. So I want to slow down real quick though.
Alli Webb (10:09):
Well, you're right. It started with the mobile business.
Mel Robbins (10:12):
See, I am right. Don't tell me it did not start with a retail business. I'm like, listen, I know I have the facts, woman about your life, and I want to slow this down because your story is so accessible
Mel Robbins (10:25):
You stop yourself over and over and over again. You think I should go to beauty school? And everyone's like, no, no, no, no, no. So you don't do it then you think I love, but I love hair and maybe I'll do some with hair. And they're like, no, no, no, that's not enough. It's not this. And so the ideas are all around you. What I want you to pay attention to is you listen to Allie tell this story is how one decision at a time, instead of arguing against what she wanted, she simply was like, fuck it. Okay, why don't I try it? And so you're sitting there, you're in your thirties, you have two young kids, you are thinking, maybe I'll just start a mobile blow drying business.
Alli Webb (11:07):
It literally was one day dawned on me, I was like, I think I should do this. I was actually, I should back up a little
Mel Robbins (11:13):
Bit, put me at the scene. Where did you get the Baha? I'm going to get in my car and drive to people's houses and blow dry their hair for cash.
Alli Webb (11:20):
It's exactly what happened. But I had just moved to LA a few years before and I met my best friend who's still my very best friend today when our now 18-year-old sons were babies. We met in a breastfeeding support group and we were inseparable and we had these babies and we were stay-at-home moms and we were having the best time, and we both started to get the itch at the same time. She just had a knack for planning parties and things. And so she wanted to get into the party planning business at the time. I was like, oh, that sounds fun. I'll help you with that. And then we started to do that. I did not really enjoy that, and I was like, no. And we were fighting and I was like, no, this isn't it. And I remember we were sitting in my Santa Monica tiny apartment and Paige and I were sitting on the floor, there are babies crawling around us and I was like, I love you, and I love that we were starting this business together, but I don't think it's the thing for me. I think I want to start a mobile blowout business. And by the way, she had curly hair too and used to always ask me to blow out her hair so she knew because we were so close. And so she's like, I think that's a great idea.
Mel Robbins (12:18):
What year is this?
Alli Webb (12:19):
This is 2000. And I guess the boys were three. And so I was like, I think we were like, what do you think people would pay if I came to their house? I want to make this. People are actually going to call me because nobody knew me. I was brand new to la. And so we were maybe 35 or 40 bucks and Paige was like, yeah, two twenties. Easy peasy. I was like two twenties easy. It was going to be a cash business. So I posted on Peach Chad and I said, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have two little boys. I'm a longtime hairstylist. I'm thinking of starting a mobile blowout business where I'll come to your house while your baby is sleeping and blow out your hair and I'm going to only charge. I literally said, I'm going to only charge 35 or 40 bucks, not a very sophisticated business plan. And sure enough, I started getting inundated with emails, can you come over tomorrow? When can you come over? I was like, hot damn, I'll be there. And so what did
Mel Robbins (13:06):
You do with the kids?
Alli Webb (13:07):
Well, I didn't actually make any money because between gas and I didn't make any money, but who cares because it led to Drybar. But at the time I was so happy still because then I got a big duffle bag together. I threw all of my hair shit in a bag and I was like, okay, I'll be over. So I think one of my sons was in preschool then a total wash money wise. But I didn't care. And I was really just wanting the freedom to get out of the house for a little while and do something for myself and talk to adults and whatever. And I love doing hair. And so it was like a win-win win for me minus the money. So I start going to do women's hair. And another big key insight that I didn't realize I was learning while I was learning it was that I would usually go to these women's homes and be in their living room or kitchens rarely in someone's personal bathroom. They didn't know me. It wasn't like I was their friend.
(13:57):
I was just coming over to do, but I was a mom, so there was a level of trust, but I would usually do their hair in the living room, so not in front of a mirror. And that's the thing about Drybar, which of course now is there's not mirrors in front of the stations at
Alli Webb (14:05):
Drybar, which was such a massive learning for me from the mobile business because I would go to a woman's house, she'd be sitting at her like this at her bar at her kitchen, I'd blow dry her hair so she wasn't micromanaging me, which as a hairstylist was awesome. I was like, when I'm ready for you to see your hair, I'll tell you and you can get up and go look in a mirror. And that would happen. And then there would be this really amazing moment where she'd be like, oh my God, I love it.
(14:30):
And then you'd hear the squeal, she'd be so happy. She felt so good. All this confidence erupted. And I was like, man, this is so great because not only do I like it as a hairstylist that I can just do my thing and work it out and make sure it looks good. And she doesn't have the pressure of who wants to stare at themselves in a mirror for 45 minutes. It's like as women as humans, really, it's like you start dissecting yourself, I look tired. I don't like my nose looks like what's up with Why am I wearing this? All the
Mel Robbins (14:57):
Shit. Why are they doing this with my hair right
Alli Webb (14:58):
Now? What's happening this? Yeah, I mean, all the shit that we do, we just nitpick because we're staring at ourselves. I was like, okay. And when we started concepting Drybar, so many learnings from my mobile business came out and that was a huge one.
Mel Robbins (15:08):
How long did you do the mobile business before? You're like, there's something here
Alli Webb (15:14):
For a little less than a year because I got so busy. And I was like, shit. I'm saying no, I'm starting to say no more than I'm saying yes, because back to the kids, I could really only be out of the house for four hours.
(15:26):
So I could only do maybe three or four blowouts in that time if it worked out, because I was in the Palisades and Brentwood and Santa Monica. And so I was running around and I couldn't do that many. And I was like, man, I'm saying no more. I'm like, that's not good. And then I was like, do I bring on more stylists, mobili and send them out, but then they're going to turn into their clients? And so I was like, that doesn't seem right either. And I couldn't control the experience. And that's when I went to my brother and I was like, I feel like I should turn my mobile business into a brick and mortar. My brother's also bald and a dude. And he was like, what? Why can't women blow out their own hair? And I'm like, no, didn't you remember growing up with me and the crazy whatever.
(16:05):
But I got him on board with it and I said, I want to basically, instead of me going to them come to me, I want to open one little shop. And he was like, okay. He knew I was having success in my mobile business that I was getting really busy. And I was like, Mike, I think if the price is right and the space is beautiful and really well brawn and I'd worked in hair salons, I knew enough to make it great. I felt, and he knew that. I knew that too. So when I went to Michael and I said, I want to do this, and he was like, Hmm. And it was so cool because it was such a level set of skills. Michael was always really good students just naturally really book smart and whatever. And I wasn't, but now here, I'm coming with this. I know this business and you don't, so you need to learn this part from me and I need to learn that part from you. And so there was this beautiful merge of us coming together and I was like, I know I need help running this business, but I also know I know how to run a salon. I'd worked at many salons as the assistant to owner, so I saw all of it, the good, the bad, and the ugly, everything that happens
Mel Robbins (17:06):
In hair salons. And I want to pause right there and lemme tell you why. Because we also discount the fact that everything that you've done along the way is also filling your brain with experiences and ways that you wouldn't do things. And it doesn't even have to be in the category that you started this business in because you're always learning and experiencing things and saying, I wouldn't do it this way, or I would do it this way, or I wanted to do it this way or, and so these are all such profound and important nuggets.
Alli Webb (17:41):
I really believe everything I did in my life uniquely prepared me to sit at the helm of a blow dry empire unequivocally. I mean,
Mel Robbins (17:50):
That is a hilarious sentence. Can I just say that? A blow dry empire. It's what? Dry bar is a blow dry empire. That is incredible. I don't think anybody would wake up and go, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to create a blow dry empire.
Alli Webb (18:08):
Me either. But it was working in pr, working at hair salons, and I really did see, there was so much I loved about hair salons and there was a lot that I didn't
(18:17):
Like the cutthroat ness of it. I didn't like. It was like the eat would you kill environment? I didn't like the, I'm not, I don't want to wash your hair. There was a lot I didn't like about it. And I was like, I don't want that. That's not what Drybar is going to be about. I want this happy, we all are in this together kumbaya, which was not what, you just don't see that in hair salons. And we had so many stylists. I mean, gosh, at the height of Drybar, I mean probably even today there's over 5,000 stylists that worked for Drybar. There was always this sense of, I can't tell you how many stories I'd hear from stylists who would come in and be like, Ugh, my boss is doing drugs in the back and nobody's nice to me and I hate it there.
(18:53):
But I mean story after story after story. There's just this weird, not all. And I want to be cognizant to not say not all hair salons are like that. And there's a lot of really great ones, but there's a lot of stories. I mean, it's not stuff that I actually experienced myself, but just stories that I heard from stylists about how they were treated and the way that they were paid and all the things. It's hard business. It's a hard business. And for us, we wanted to make it not like that. We wanted it to be, the way the Drybar structure was set up was that we were paying people, they were paid hourly and then they would get their tips. So it wasn't like a chair rental the way it typically is. And that was an intentional decision because I wanted people to feel like they were part of something that it wasn't like you're just coming in to see hairstylist, Mel, you're coming in to dry bar to get a great blowout.
(19:40):
And the big reason this thing would work is because you could sit in anybody's chair potentially and get a great blowout. It might not be the exact way that Mel does it that you love, but you'll sit in Allie's chair and you'll be like, oh, this isn't what I would've got. But I kind of like it. I always feel like, again, I take this hairstyling stuff obviously very seriously. I love this, but I feel like people don't always know what they want until you show them. Far be it for me to compare us to the iPhone, but we didn't know we needed iPhones. And then we got them and we're like, of course we needed iPhones. And it's like, again, it's lofty, but I think that a woman comes in and she always gets her hair blown this way. It's true. And I'm like, just show her.
(20:21):
You are the hairstylist. Just show her a little something a little different and then she'll be like, oh my God, I love it. And it would happen all the time. So I'm like, it's our job as the hairstylist, the innovator, the leader in this situation to show women and she doesn't like it. She doesn't like it. We'll redo it, whatever. It's like we're not cutting her hair off. It's not surgery. And so I felt really strongly about all of that, and it really was, again, I was like, you're going to make so much fun of me. I used to say, we're changing the world one blow out at a time. And I really felt like that the change you would see in women was unbelievable.
Mel Robbins (21:00):
Well, I think when you feel good about how you look, there is absolute irrefutable research about how it impacts your confidence.
Alli Webb (21:09):
No question. Someone did an article, I think it was Marie Claire, it was back when magazines were still popular. And it was actually a friend of mine who wrote the story. It was called The Psychology of a Blowout. And she sat in Drybar for eight hours and she watched the behavior of how women walked in and how they walked out. And I mean, Mel, it's astounding. You'd see the way a woman would walk in very serious, usually a hat on head down business serious. And I kid you not, there were times when women would walk out, I was in the shop 24 7. I was like, I didn't see that woman come in. And they're like, yeah, you did. She came in an hour. And I was like, no, I didn't see her because I didn't recognize her because she looked so different. I mean, her hair looked different, her hat was off, but there was this lightness and this pep in her step. And that's when I was also like, okay, we're not selling blowouts. We're selling happiness and confidence. Like holy shit, we are so onto something. This is not about hair anymore. It was like this was about the psyche of the way women were feeling, and that's why it got so massive in my humble opinion. One thing
Mel Robbins (22:13):
That I just can't, can't underscore enough is the example that you are giving to the person listening on passion. And there's a couple things I want to point out here, and it's this first and foremost passion. I have always defined as just energy. Anything that energizes you. And there is no doubt that blowouts and hair and happiness that brings so much passion and energy into your life, you can feel it vibrates off you as you talk. And here's the other thing I want to say about that. Passion is so personal. I don't give a shit about blowouts, honestly. Literally, there is no way I could have built this business. I can't manufacture passion into it. Of course,
Alli Webb (23:11):
Of course.
Mel Robbins (23:11):
And so I say that because I think we're always looking for some big idea or for that person can't listen. It's listen.
Alli Webb (23:20):
That's like
Mel Robbins (23:20):
I have the itch. I know what she's talking about. I have this itch to do something bigger, but I don't know what bigger is. I want to keep pointing you back to the example that Allie is giving us. What do you talk about all the time what would you do that if you could just do this and your bills were taken care of, you would do this all the time. And don't tell me you'd lay on your ass on a beach and drink margaritas because that would be fun for about a week. And then you'd be like, okay, got to scratch the ish because this is not doing anything. But so you open this first location, your bald brother becomes your partner. And
Alli Webb (23:54):
I've milked that joke for many years
Mel Robbins (23:56):
No, I like that. I noticed it too. And so it ultimately goes on and becomes this massive business. And I would love to have you talk a little bit about some of the really hard moments before we get into the advice for someone listening around how to get started and what have you learned through this whole process?
Alli Webb (24:24):
Yeah, the learning is endless and it's daily, truly, it's like a laundry list of mistakes that I made. Michael and I ended up personally guaranteeing that loan, which was the lease, which is not, it
Mel Robbins (24:38):
Worked out for you. It did not work out for Chris and I that well in the restaurant business.
Alli Webb (24:42):
Yeah, no, I mean it is true. I mean, for us it was like we didn't have, I was like, sure, you can come after us personally. We have nothing. Good luck. Great, no problem. It was also in 2010, so it was in the middle of a recession and the landlord was like, what is this blowout? And everybody was confused about what this thing was, and they're like, is it a bar? It looks like a bar.
(25:00):
I realized I didn't want hairstylists to bring in their own shit when they came into our shop, I wanted to provide it. I was like, I'm going to provide all the blow dryers. I'm going to provide all the brushes and everything you need. You don't bring any of your stuff here. And stylists were like, what? But I like this brush and I like this thing. And I was like, I hear you, but no, you're not. And it was like that was one little decision. And some stylists were like, no, we're really annoyed about that. And I was like, I get it, but no, I want this place to look a certain way. I want every station to feel and look a certain way. I want you guys to know how to do the Cosmo, the My tie, because all of our hairstyles are named after drink, which by the way was another thing that my brother was like, that's so cheesy.
(25:39):
We shouldn't name the hairstyles after drinks. I was like, yes, we should, because women are going to come in and they're like, I want a Cosmo, which is our curls. And the Thai was our messy beachy look. I was like, I guarantee you women are going to love this. And they did. And women would always come in, I think I want the ma t tie. I mean, without fail, it was huge. And was Michael was like, I don't think people are going to want, but you know what I mean? As I think back through the business, it's like everything was a decision and everything could have been a wrong decision. One of the big ones that I've talked about quite a bit is that if you've ever called Drybar to make an appointment, we don't have the phones
Alli Webb (26:12):
Inside the shops in the first day, the first week, the phones were ringing off the hook, which was amazing. I mean, great problem to have. The shop was crazy busy, and we had the phone up at the front desk, but it's loud, the music's loud, which is part of the ambiance. There's flat screen TVs playing like Devil Wrist, Prada, there's blow dryers going and there's women talking. You can't hear shit, but it's fun. It's like a party. It's a club basically, which is a controlled chaos. But it was so fun. The energy was so good, but then the phone's ringing, and I'm trying to answer the phone, and the way it was situated was the front desk and the phone. So a woman who's coming in to check in or a woman who's leaving, and then there's a person on the phone that's a trifecta that doesn't work. And I was like, I don't want to be that business. This customer service is so big for me.
(26:57):
And I was like, I don't want to be like, excuse me, the finger up. Give me a second. Oh, I hated that. I was like, we're not doing that, but the phone's ringing, which is good. People are trying to make appointments. And I was like, stop answering the phone. We'll let it go to voicemail and we'll call them back, which is a kind of crazy decision to make when you've just opened a business. We're like, oh, we're not going to answer our fucking phones. But I was like, we can't answer our phones because what is most important here is the women who are in the shop
Mel Robbins (27:23):
Having
Alli Webb (27:23):
The experience, giving us their money and wanting to come back and wanting to come back. So I was like, I let it go to voicemail, and at the end of the night we will call everybody back, which was a disaster and such a pain. But what was the alternative? So then we realized we had to pull the phones out of the shop and basically started hiring people to answer the phones outside the shops in the quietness of their living room. We were like, now we're dealing with this company that we have to get the phone business. We're in the call center business now, which was like, what are we doing here? But we had to have people answer the phones outside the shops. And then as we grew, and there's 150 locations now, it was a real call center. So we had hundreds of people on the phone because mind you also, you can book on an app and you can book on your computer, but 50% of the clientele, which is over millions, want to call on the phone, which is to me, I want to call, I'm a caller.
(28:13):
I'm I'm a caller. You're not my favorite kind of person in that regard because that's okay. I'm willing to not be your favorite person. I was like, please, just go online. I don't want to, it's complicated. I want to talk and I want to find out. But it was annoying and it was like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Like, hi, I want to call. And I had that girl last time and blah, blah, blah. But the girl on the phone doesn't totally know that, which wasn't great, but it was again, the alternative. So anyways, I mean it was just thing after thing after thing that you just deal with when you're running a business. I mean, we had the first month of dry bar, we were underneath a restaurant and we're doing blowouts. It's super busy, it's popping. And I started to see this black goop come through our very white beautiful tiles.
Mel Robbins (28:55):
What? Black goop, goop, souping
Alli Webb (28:57):
Through the thing. I didn't what it was, and I was like, oh my God. Oh my God, what is that? What is that? I'm watching it. And all of a sudden, Mel, I swear to God, it started dripping and then it breaks through the ceiling and it's like this, I don't know what it is. Ew. It wasn't like that. It was some sort of sewage and some sort of from the, oh, some sort of
Mel Robbins (29:13):
Sewage. That sounds pretty disgusting in a
Alli Webb (29:15):
Broken, not sewage. It was something from the restaurant. It was like food. It was disgusting. It's like the
Mel Robbins (29:20):
Waist trap.
Alli Webb (29:21):
I know it was gross. But here's the funniest part of that story is it came down right in front of the first chair, so it didn't actually hit anybody, thank God. And everyone kind of looked, the shop was completely booked, solid packed. People waiting and the people look over it at it and they're like, huh, move their chair over. Can you keep going? The woman who getting her hair blown, nobody skipped a beat. And I was freaking out because the ceiling just fucking caved in and I had to go figure out how to get that fixed and whatever. But I was like, well, let's clean it up and keep going. I mean, it was so crazy. It's just like there's so many stories like that, and that's really a lot of what's in the book.
Mel Robbins (29:58):
So I want to kind of jump into some of the lessons. Okay. And we've covered a lot of 'em that your best idea is going to come from something that you loved as a childhood. Just start somewhere, use another one that you talked about. We're all imposters. We both get a lot of questions about imposter syndrome. What do you say to people when they say, but I feel like an imposter.
Alli Webb (30:19):
Great.
Mel Robbins (30:19):
What do you mean? Great.
Alli Webb (30:20):
Good. It means you're doing something that you haven't done before. That's awesome. I think it's funny, the whole negative connotation on imposter syndrome, it's like, oh, because you're stepping into a role of something that you don't know and that you are potentially not good at and you've never done before. Good for you. I think you should be excited about that. I think it should be celebrated.
Mel Robbins (30:40):
Yes.
Alli Webb (30:41):
I've always kind of tiptoed into most jobs I've ever had, not really knowing and figuring it out. And there's something really exciting and fun to me about that. It's funny because I like that so much in business, not so much in my personal life. That's when you're like, ah, I kind of want to know what's happening. But in business, and I loved not knowing what was coming next and all the excitement around building it and figuring out so many things. And I went on QVC and did that, and that was scary. On live tv, you can't say bad words and you can't say a lot of things. And I was so scared. I loved the feeling of like, I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to do it. I felt like an imposter. Sure, I'd never done it before. I'd never been on live TV before, but I was up for the challenge.
Mel Robbins (31:24):
So the title of the book is The Messy Truth
Alli Webb (31:26):
Though. So
Mel Robbins (31:27):
Let's talk about the messy part, because all this came at a very big cost.
Alli Webb (31:31):
Yes, there's a lot of costs along the way.
Mel Robbins (31:33):
Alright, so let's talk about it.
Alli Webb (31:35):
Well, gosh, where to start your marriage. Yeah, so I met Cam, like I said, when we were pretty young, we lived in New York City, and as I mentioned, I was pretty driven to find the husband and make the babies, which I did. And Cam's an amazing man, and we had a beautiful friendship, really, which I now in retrospect realize was my parents' marriage, which is crazy how you don't realize that until afterwards. My parents got divorced when they were in their fifties and turned out they didn't have a great marriage, but they were best friends. They also built a business together. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. This is a carbon copy cam. And I built Drybar together along with my brother and for years I was
Mel Robbins (32:15):
Just, how was that on your marriage to be business partners?
Alli Webb (32:18):
I think it was the third kid. It was like there was Grant, then there was Kit, and then there was Drybar and it was this beautiful company that we built and it was so exciting and we were so enamored with this company just like you are with the child. And Cam had his lane and the creative part. I had my lane and the hair and the shops and Michael was doing more of the business behind the scenes stuff and we had fun. It was so fun. And so it really had nothing to do with Dry Bar. I think actually Dry Bar probably kept us together because we found this new thing that we were doing together,
Alli Webb (33:50):
But I didn't have the passion I needed to have in a marriage, but I was like, I made this decision, I'm going to stick with it. I decided to marry this man. I'm going to stay in this marriage. And then I think as we started getting closer to seeing the finish line of Drybar and knew we were going to have a little bit of time and money to go travel and see the world together, I was like, I don't think this is, I also was, I mean this is very TMI, but I was like, maybe I just don't like sex. We just didn't have that kind of relationship and I knew it wasn't right. I knew it wasn't right deep down and I just couldn't bring myself to do anything about it really until I did. And I all of a sudden found myself, and I really go into it in pretty great detail in the book, but I found myself being starting to inch towards the path of having an emotional affair. And I was like, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to do that. And so the writing was on the wall cam and I cam even would joke around once the kids leave, maybe we'll break up then. And I was like, if that's the plan, let's just do it now. And so
Mel Robbins (34:02):
How long was it like that for you guys? Because when my husband and I worked together, when my business first started, it nearly was the death of our marriage. No question. All we talked about was either the kids or the business. There was no marriage and we are very, very good at doing things and getting through a to-do list. And there was literally no marriage in terms of he and I having our own emotional connection. And so we tried it and it was disastrous. And so I am just curious, what was it like for you guys and how long was it George of just you guys were business partners and you both knew that that was the one thing other than your two children that was keeping this together?
Alli Webb (34:56):
I mean, we knew the whole time truly. I don't think it was the business. I can see makes sense what you are saying. But even, I mean Kim tried to call the wedding off a month before the wedding.
Mel Robbins (35:06):
Really? What was that
Alli Webb (35:08):
Like? Well, I was like, absolutely not. We are getting married, the venue's booked. My parents, I was like, and I can't. And now the person that I am is like, oh my God, of course he was right. We shouldn't have gotten married. I mean, thank God we did. I mean, my boys are just the greatest humans ever. And I mean, gosh, it's like you can't imagine they're your children. And then we built this amazing business and I really don't regret it, but we shouldn't have gotten, I think I was like, I don't want to go back to the drawing board. I don't want to start dating again. I don't want to be alone again, let's just go. It was so crazy of me. But I knew we shouldn't have gotten married either. But I really liked him, I loved him. We were best friends. And I was like, I think I just thought, again, all my relationships are very personal, but all my relationships up to that point, after six months or so, all the kind of passion I thought wore off anyway. So I
Mel Robbins (36:06):
Was like, so wait, you guys were together, you got married and after six months you never had sex again.
Alli Webb (36:11):
We didn't never have sex, but not often. Define not often.
Mel Robbins (36:16):
Once a year. Not
Alli Webb (36:17):
Once a year. We did. Well, I'm just looking for baseline for
Mel Robbins (36:21):
Myself.
Alli Webb (36:22):
Here's the thing though, and again, I didn't really have much to compare it to, and this is obviously a pretty tender subject, but when I met my second husband and I was like, whoa, we had sex every day, multiple times a day. And I was like, oh, this is what it's supposed to be like. And I was like, this was not my marriage. This was not my first marriage. And so I was like, holy shit. And I instinctively knew somewhere in my body, in my mind that I don't think this is the way it's supposed to be with my first marriage. And so I went looking again, I was on a mission. I was like, I'm going to go figure this out. Am I asexual or do I just am not with the right person? What's the deal here? And so I ended my marriage, my first marriage, and with three weeks later I was dating and I was experimenting.
Mel Robbins (37:14):
Wait three weeks, hold on. Three weeks after you said I want a divorce or three weeks after the divorce was
Alli Webb (37:20):
Final, three weeks after I said I wanted a divorce. It was very fast and furious, but I was in this nothing going on marriage for a long time. And I mean was a disaster, was like it was a disaster, but I was like, I want to go see what's out there and you're allowed to experiment. And that's what I did. And I very quickly realized, I was like, I'm not going to get married again. I'm just going to date until it wears off and then I'll do whatever. I mean, I don't know what I was thinking, but then I did date a lot and I realized I think I want to be in a partnership. I don't think I want to just be dating. And then I met Adrian and we fell in love very fast and furious. And it was like we were together five months before covid hit. And then it was like then the relationship got very fast tracked and then that caused a lot of problems which would ultimately cause the demise of that marriage, which I haven't talked about publicly until this moment, which is a little, so
Mel Robbins (38:22):
This is the first time you're talking publicly about divorcing your second husband?
Alli Webb (38:28):
Yeah, because I think there's a little bit of embarrassment if I'm being really honest. And it's funny, I know at the start of this we talked about I don't really care that much of what people think. However, I paraded my second marriage around a trophy.
Alli Webb (38:42):
It was like we had these Instagram lives where we would talk about Marriage Mondays and we would have this thing fight for love. And it was like, I don't know. It's not that I don't believe that it was true, and I do really think we were in love. There was just things that made it and that I won't talk about that were made it just not possible. The marriage wasn't going to work and I jumped into it again. I jumped into this marriage that had some things in it that weren't right for me and had things in it that weren't right for him, but we were just in love and there was so much passion and excitement.
(39:21):
And for me, which I can obviously only talk about my side of it is I was like, oh my God, I want to have sex with this man all the time. This must be love. And so that was my guiding light. I didn't pay attention to all the other things that weren't right and didn't line up because I was like, oh, this just must be it. And these other things that don't really work, they'll work themselves out. Now I realize I got really sideswiped by this passion and love. Everything was amplified and we rushed into marriage and blending a family is not easy. I mean it's rough. It comes with a lot of complications of navigating a lot and trying to love somebody else's children, have them love yours and how does it all fit together? And it's funny now in retrospect, when I think back on it and I think about things I wish I had done differently and things I wish I had noticed and him too, I think he would say that we didn't, we should have paid more attention and closer attention to what wasn't right for both of us, which
(40:29):
We didn't.
Mel Robbins (40:30):
What did you learn from this, or what do you wish you had done differently that you feel comfortable talking about?
Alli Webb (40:38):
I wish I had, what's the word I was going to say that stood up for myself. I wish I had more agency. I got so swept away and I think I do this in relationships, I get very enmeshed, you know runaway bride, the movie, and you know how there's kind of a famous scene where she's like, I don't know how I like my eggs. I like my eggs, the way he likes his eggs. It's like you become so enmeshed in the men that you're with and then you lose yourself. And I'm like, I really do that. And now I feel like at least I know that and there's this awareness that next time, next relationship I am going to go in with. These are the things that are important to me. These are the non-negotiables for me. And if they aren't there historically, I'd be like, that's okay. I'll be okay. We'll figure it out because I'm such a back to business. I'm such a jump. And then go figure it out. You figure it out as you go. You don't have to have all the answers, which is very true of business. You don't, and I'm not saying you have to have all the answers in a relationship, but you do have to have the same goal.
Mel Robbins (41:49):
Here's the thing I would point out
Alli Webb (41:49):
Because
Mel Robbins (41:50):
First of all, I think it's pretty awesome that you're willing to talk very openly about something that is just unfolding and that you're willing to reflect on your part in this. And I think that the interesting thing about this is that the difference between a business is that you can jump full force into a business and let it be your identity. When you do that in a relationship, it's really hard, hard to find yourself again and your okayness with exactly who you are and who you're not and what you've done and what you haven't and what you've been extraordinary at and what you've really fucked up
Alli Webb (42:36):
And
Mel Robbins (42:37):
Being okay with all of it.
Alli Webb (42:38):
Yeah, I mean I've been on the floor the last few months and it's like it was such a, oh my God, oh my God. Was it worth it? Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. There's still grief and it still hurts. I'm sure
Mel Robbins (42:53):
You're not even done with the divorce yet.
Alli Webb (42:54):
Yeah, but I already can feel this sense of I'm getting to the other side.
Mel Robbins (43:02):
If you had one piece of advice, because a lot of people jump from a relationship or a marriage right into another one
Mel Robbins (43:13):
Having crashed and burned, if you had one piece of advice that you learned the hard way to anyone jumping into a relationship, particularly where the new partner has kids, what's one piece of advice that you learned that you would do totally differently or you'd caution somebody don't ever do this?
Alli Webb (43:36):
I think it's like take a step back and this is advice I'm giving myself is like, don't be so afraid to be alone that you're going to just end up in a relationship that isn't quite the right relationship for you and don't rush into it. I mean, I've rushed into every single thing ever in my life, and I think, I know this won't sound like much to you, but having been single for almost five months now is a long time for me. I've not been single for that long, since I was 26 years old. Really?
Mel Robbins (44:11):
Does single mean alone or single mean? Just not dating?
Alli Webb (44:15):
Not dating. I'm inching towards that, but I am doing it really cautiously now where I'm like, I'm going to move slow.
Mel Robbins (44:25):
Why do you need to be in a relationship you are months out of and not even done with a divorce? You have gajillions of dollars, you have a propensity to jump into something because it's passionate. There is nothing more addictive than hot sex with a new person. If I were your therapist, which I am not, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd be like, Allie Webb shall never get married again. Well, that's probably true.
Alli Webb (45:00):
I don't know that I'll ever get married
Mel Robbins (45:01):
Again. And I'm like, why the fuck do you need a boyfriend right now? Get a vibrator and get your shit together. I mean, listen, literally, dude, you are a successful badass businesswoman who does not need a fucking guy. I'm not
Alli Webb (45:14):
Saying I need a boyfriend right now.
Mel Robbins (45:16):
Yes you do. Yes you do. This tells me if you are starting to inch toward, and I'm getting heated, because you should not be dating people. You cannot trust yourself and you do not need to be in a relationship. And now I'm talking to you like a girlfriend who literally keeps doing the same shit over and over again.
Alli Webb (45:38):
I hear you. And I don't know. I mean, listen, I hear you. I don't know. Don't be fucking calling me when you are like, I did it again. Trust me, I am not jumping back into a relationship.
Mel Robbins (45:50):
I'm just I don't believe you.
Alli Webb (45:51):
I'm not. There's no relationship on the table. There's nothing to speak of right now. True. But
Mel Robbins (45:55):
You're having sex with people.
Alli Webb (45:56):
No, I haven't had sex with anybody. Okay. Swear to God. Okay. Okay. I haven't even gone on a date with anybody. Okay, good.
Mel Robbins (46:01):
You said you were
Alli Webb (46:02):
In toward it. Don't starting to talk to people.
Mel Robbins (46:04):
Don't talk to people. You're not ready. You're not on the market. No, no. You got to do a book tour. You have to get your shit in order. You have to take care of yourself. You, in my opinion, need a year of being sober.
Alli Webb (46:18):
See, I know. I mean, listen, I hear that that's like everybody says that you need a year. I don't dunno that. I totally agree with that. I'm saying I need time and I'm not going to jump back into a relationship. I'm not going to get married again. I know a lot of red flags, but I also like, I'm going to just see what happens. I really love a partner I really like. I do want a partner. You have
Mel Robbins (46:41):
Your brother and your ex-husband as business
Alli Webb (46:44):
Partners. I know, but okay, I hear you. And it's so interesting because I
Mel Robbins (46:48):
Know it's amazing to me how much you're pushing back on this because I think you were in a marriage that literally almost got called off a week or a month beforehand. You knew in your heart you were with the wrong person, even though you have two amazing kids out of it. Then you jumped into, I don't think you have enough time from this.
Alli Webb (47:05):
I hear
Mel Robbins (47:06):
You. We'll see, I want the best for you.
Alli Webb (47:08):
I know, and I want the best for me too. And I'm going to go at the pace that feels right for me. And I don't think there's a, has to be a year, it has to be six months, it has to be five years. I'm going to see where it lands for me. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about whatever's next.
Mel Robbins (47:24):
Okay. I'm cautiously nervous on your behalf. Don't be, do want to ask you because a couple months ago I got a text from you and I just want to read it to you.
Alli Webb (47:36):
Oh gosh.
Mel Robbins (47:37):
It was just a short, you probably don't even remember sending this to me. You were in a, oh no, we
Alli Webb (47:40):
May have to cut this out.
Mel Robbins (47:42):
We might. No, no, no. It's okay. It's, it's a short text. I just wanted to ask you what it was about. It's very, very, very short text. I'm not going to read any of our longer texts. You texted me and said, and we had never met and person out of the
Alli Webb (48:06):
Blue. This is an out of the blue text
Mel Robbins (48:07):
Pretty much. We had texted back and forth about business and all of a sudden in May, you texted me, dear Mel, my husband of one year just asked me for a divorce, and I'm beside myself with grief. I have a feeling you might have some wisdom here.
(48:24):
And I thought it was a very brave thing to do to reach out in a moment like that to somebody that you hadn't met and that doesn't know the story or anything and just ask for advice. And I just was curious about that moment for you.
Alli Webb (48:51):
I had watched a lot of your stuff and I felt like, I don't know. I get these hits of intuition, I guess, where I'm like, I think I just have a feeling based on a lot of the things that I've seen that you post, that you talk about. I feel like Mel would have some really, and you did. You had such fucking good advice. It was like a drawbridge reference that you, and it stuck with me, and I just instinctively knew. I had a feeling you would respond because you were really kind online and you just seem really kind in real life. If you didn't respond like, okay, no problem. And you were really gracious and responded to me and became a friend, and really helpful. And by the way, that is a big piece of advice I give to people in the business realm of the worst they can say is no, or they don't respond. No one's going to die. And so that's kind of, I think, how I approach that of, let me just see. I bet she's got some really great advice. And you did
Mel Robbins (49:52):
Well. I think sometimes it's easier to talk to people who aren't involved.
Alli Webb (49:55):
That's true. That's
Mel Robbins (49:56):
True. Because you don't feel the judgment and you don't feel like you have to manage how I'm going to feel about it.
Alli Webb (50:02):
That's true.
Mel Robbins (50:02):
Well, I like the fact that you showed up here, that you were willing to talk about the messy stuff, and it's also a cautionary tale about how it's easy to lose yourself. And I'm really, really proud of you for the work that you're doing because you got it fucking nailed in business. But I really happy that you are now starting to own the more important piece,
Alli Webb (50:27):
Which
Mel Robbins (50:28):
Is your wellbeing and your happiness as a whole person.
Alli Webb (50:32):
Yeah. That's the goal.
Mel Robbins (50:35):
Allie Webb, you're amazing.
Alli Webb (50:38):
Thank you. This was amazing.
Mel Robbins (50:39):
Thank you. Thank you. I want to thank Allie for showing up for you and me today because she wasn't sure. She was going to talk about what was going on in her second marriage. It's easy to show up and talk about the wins. I really want to applaud the fact that she was willing to talk about something that she's actually processing right now. And this was the first place that she was talking about it publicly, because she trusts me and she trusts you. And so a huge shout out to Ally Webb for going there for us. And a huge shout out for you. And I'm always here to remind you twice a week that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to find something that really lights you up, to lean into it and go make it happen. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So at the very, okay, that's our shitty first draft. Here we go.
(51:39):
Remember we got, okay. In order to get started on some big idea that you may have or some itch that you're looking to scratch. Alright, let start all over. Here we go again. Whatever that itch is, scratch it. Whatever that idea is, don't poo poo it. Lean toward it and don't do you. Laughing at my poo. P. Lots of farts today. Scratching, itching, pooping. Somebody get the preparation. H Well, it's someone's life story where, okay. I had it really good. It was like, what did I say? All right, let do one more to see if I can get it tighter. Okay. Good enough. YouTube, thanks for being here. And if you love this, which I know you did, you want to check out the Jamie Kern Lima interview that we did. How to find your purpose and Pursue your Dreams. Boom.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Alli Webb
Alli Webb is an entrepreneur, New York Times bestselling author, and founder of Drybar, known for revolutionizing the beauty industry.
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Book: The Messy Truth
In this entrepreneur's memoir, Alli Webb invites you into her world as a businesswoman, a mother, and a partner, untangling her complicated journey with the wit and humor of a talented storyteller and the authentic wisdom of a woman who's been through it all—all the success and all the chaos.
Empowering, insightful, and bravely honest, The Messy Truth will encourage you to find your own unique path to success and to understand its darker side as you learn to embrace the mess of life.
Resources
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- Harvard Business Review: The 5 stages of small business growth
- Harvard Business Review: How to write a great business plan
- Forbes: The complete 35-step guide for entrepreneurs starting a business
- University of Southern California: How liking your job will help you succeed
- New York Times: Why following your passion is good for you (and how to start)
- Forbes: How to rekindle your childhood dreams when making a career change
- McMaster University: How to not lose yourself in a relationship
- American Psychological Association: How to have a healthy divorce
- National Library of Medicine: The impact of family structure on children
- Forbes: Blended but not broken stepfamilies
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