Episode: 110
Conquer Overwhelm: Your Ultimate Guide to Inner Peace With the Amazing Dr. Thema Bryant
with Dr. Thema Bryant, PhD
You can and will overcome the overwhelm, anxiety, and stress you are feeling right now.
Dr. Thema Bryant, former president of the American Psychological Association, teaches at Pepperdine University, author of multiple best-selling books, and has spent decades of her life researching how you can stay calm and centered in any situation.
She calls this kind of peace “coming home” to yourself, and she will teach you how to do it, even when life feels chaotic.
This is an encore episode with new insights from Mel at the top of the conversation.
Listen on:
Even if you feel like you were never at home with yourself, you can still come home to yourself.
Dr. Thema Bryant, PhD
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:00:03):
There's a lot going on right now. And so I've made the decision to switch up our programming this week. Our show is syndicated in 194 countries, and right now there is a lot of conflict going on in regions around the world, and there has never been a better time to provide tools that will help you tap back into the power and light and love and connection inside of you. And Dr. Tama is the person who can teach you how to do it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. There's a lot going on right now, and so I've made the decision to switch up our programming this week and rerun an episode that we did back in May that was called Six Signs are Disconnected From Your Power and How to Get It Back, Life-Changing Advice from the Remarkable Dr.
(00:00:56):
Tam o' Bryant. Now, that episode was extraordinary. It's been one of our most shared episodes since launching the Mel Robbins podcast. And in it Dr. Tam o' Bryant, who is literally a walking treasure of a human being. She is discussing in this episode the Process of Homecoming, which is how you overcome fear and trauma to reclaim your whole authentic self. Her book Homecoming, which is now out in paperback, is a must read. And as far as I'm concerned, this conversation with Dr. Tama was one of the most important conversations we've had in the first year of the Mel Robbins Podcast. The reason why I'm replaying it right now is because I think you need to hear it. There are so many tools that will help you tap back into the power and light and love and connection inside of you. And I decided to re-release this episode because I think the world really would benefit from listening to this.
(00:01:59):
Our show is syndicated in 194 countries, and right now there is a lot of conflict going on in regions around the world, and there has never been a better time to provide tools and hope and small ways that you as an individual can empower yourself and live in the truth, and also stay connected to light and to love and to connection. And Dr. Tamma is the person who can teach you how to do it. She's a psychologist, a minister, a tenured professor at Pepperdine University. She's a New York Times bestselling author. In 2023, she was named the very first black female president of the American Psychological Association. She completed her doctorate in clinical psychology at Duke University and her postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School's Victims of Violence Program. She says that no matter what's going on around you, you can always come back home to yourself. And that's what we're going to talk about today, the six signs that you're disconnected from yourself, and most importantly, how you can start to reconnect. I hope you love this conversation as much as I did. I just re-listened to it and I know it's exactly what you need right now. Dr. Tamma Bryant's brand new book, homecoming overcome Fear and Trauma to reclaim your whole authentic self. It is a must read. Dr. Tamma, I'm so thrilled that you are here.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:03:32):
I am thrilled to be here. I love you. I love your work and I love getting the word out about the journey home because we need it.
Mel Robbins (00:03:44):
Do we ever, I am pretty emotional today because I'm here in Los Angeles because one of our daughters is graduating from college in a couple days, and I am going after our interview to hear her do her final senior performance.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:04:04):
Beautiful.
Mel Robbins (00:04:05):
And it's a full circle moment. I'm going to the theater where she got her invitation to audition, to even be admitted into the program. And I've been calling it a full circle moment, but what I realize is it's a homecoming.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:04:22):
It is.
Mel Robbins (00:04:23):
And I guess that's where I want to start because it makes me emotional to think about this because I lived for so long feeling what you would call psychologically homeless, disconnected from my true self and the feeling that you have when you finally feel whole. It is unlike anything I've ever experienced.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:05:00):
Yes. And I appreciate the honesty and the transparency because we do get disconnected. Life disconnects us. And if you don't mind saying, how could you tell you were disconnected? Or what was it like when you were psychologically wandering?
Mel Robbins (00:05:22):
It felt like there was the physical, me walking around in my life doing the things that we all do, getting up, going to work, taking care of the kids, calling friends, watching tv, but there was a part of me that was separate that felt, I guess you could call it like a knowing. I wonder if even that critical voice that we listen to is also almost like grinding at you because you're not really on a path where you feel like you are truly. I mean, and sometimes I think back, I think I didn't even feel like I was alive for crying out loud, just on autopilot, just feeling no spiritual center, no connection to values, just existing. And so I guess it would be for me, this feeling of separateness.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:06:25):
Yeah, separated from yourself and then separated from other people because you're surrounded by people, but they don't really see, you can fool a lot of people including yourself. So a part of when I talk about homecoming is telling yourself the truth and then living based on that truth that you tell yourself. Right? Because I can lie to myself that social script is I'm fine, I'm fine, and I'm in a lot of faith-based communities, and the term is like, I'm blessed, right? It's like, yeah, you can be blessed and also have a lot going on blessed and lost.Â
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:07:03):
So that awakening, what I like to say, and I think I say it in the book is can we get to the place where we can admit I miss myself?
Mel Robbins (00:07:16):
Wow. Okay. I just want to make sure that you listening to us just got what Dr. Tama just said to you, I miss myself. How does somebody who feels like they don't even know who they are? You hear that a lot. I don't even know who I am
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:07:35):
Anymore. Yes. Yeah. So I like to say, even if you feel like you were never at home with yourself, you can still come home to yourself. And that is a reality for a lot of people who grew up with stress and trauma, who perhaps were born into families where there was a lot of stress and trauma. So you learned early to be in survival mode, or you learned to play small or you learned to people please. And so you never got to what I like to call unfold. Right? You never got to connect with the truth of who you are. And so even if you have never met you, you can come home to you. And that's kind of the good news of this process.
Mel Robbins (00:08:21):
Wow. There's a West African fable that you tell at the very beginning of the book that I think will give us a visual and a story to lock onto that we can keep coming back to help keep people in the conversation.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:08:37):
Yes.
Mel Robbins (00:08:37):
So would you mind telling us that?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:08:40):
Is it a fable? What do you, yeah, you can say it's a fable. I lived in Liberia, west Africa for high school, so I'm going to do it in my version of Liberian English. But any Liberians who are listening will tell you that's not the for true.
(00:08:57):
So once upon a time, once upon a time in West Africa, there was one animal expert, and this animal expert knew every animal that was in the bush. You people say forest, but the real word is bush. If he see giraffe to think giraffe, if he see lion, he know the thing lion. So this animal expert is walking one day and he goes behind one farm and he's passing the farm. And behind the farm he sees so chickens in the middle of the chickens, it's one eagle. He said, what an eagle doing with these chickens. He go to the front of the farm and he say, bop, bop. You people say, knock the real sound. That's bop, bop. He say, bop, pop the man inside. Say, who? That the man outside say that me. You going to open the door and see. So he opens the door, he say, well, your business here.
(00:09:48):
He say, the back of you farm, you got so, so sold chickens, but in the middle it's one eagle. The farmer laughed. He said, no, I only have chicken. The animal experts that I'll show you, they go to the back of the farm, he picks up the one he's calling an eagle. He puts it on his arm. He says, listen to me, you not chicken. Chickens can't fly. You can fly. Go ahead and fly. The eagle listened to him. But then he looked down at his chicken, brothers and sisters eating their chicken food. He jumped down off the man's arm and he go back with the chickens. The farmer starts laughing at the animal expert. The animal expert is vex. He said, I coming to go. He storm away. The next day, he come back, he comes. So soon in the morning, God himself was not awake yet he come.
(00:10:39):
He say, what? Ba the man inside say, who? That the man outside. Say that me. Open the door and see, he opens the door. He takes him. He says, what are you doing here? He said, I came here because you have one eagle. This time he took the eagle and he climbed to the roof of the barn. They get to the top of the barn. And at that moment, the sun started to rise. The animal expert says to the eagle, all your life people told you you were a chicken. They told you talk like chicken. Act like chicken, walk like chicken. But you're not a chicken. You're an eagle. The eagle said to himself, I think if I don't try this thing, this man will come every day bothering me. Maybe today I will try it. So he spread his wings and he started to fly. And I tell you, my eyes could never see him again. And that's the whole reason why you and I are here today because they are those who are listening who have been treated like chickens, dating like chickens, picking jobs like chickens. But you're not a chicken, you're an eagle. So fly.
Mel Robbins (00:11:50):
Oh, I just got to do that right now. Oh my gosh. That is why this book is required reading for everyone. This is why you wrote the book. In fact, I would love for you to read this part right here up to there.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:12:10):
Oh, sure. The eagle made it home. He made it to the truth of who he was. This is homecoming. I wrote this book for all of you who at different points in your life have found yourself living like someone you are. You may have started acting different because of how you were treated or what other people told you about yourself or how you saw others acting. You have not felt comfortable or safe enough to truly be yourself or to feel at home in your identity. The recognized and unrecognized traumas of your past may have taught you to hide your gifts and voice in order to survive. This book facilitates your journey back to who you really are so you can own your full identity and fly.
Mel Robbins (00:13:08):
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:13:12):
And it has been such a gift being able to get this out to people because so many of us are hungry for more. Like you have the sense this can't be it. This just can't be it right in whatever area of my life. And so to know that healing is work, but we are worth it. Right? And when we are not at home, we are paying a cost anyway. How much has it cost me to live some other woman's life? I don't want to pay it anymore.
Mel Robbins (00:13:52):
Yeah,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:13:52):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:13:54):
It costs you your life,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:13:55):
Right? It costs you your life. Absolutely.
Mel Robbins (00:13:58):
So let's walk through the process of homecoming.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:14:01):
Yes.
Mel Robbins (00:14:01):
I am an eagle in disguise. As a chicken, I come in and I want to begin this journey, and I have the honor of sitting down across from you, Dr. Tama, but I don't know I'm an eagle. When any patient comes in and sits down that you work with, are you like, oh, we got another eagle who's in a chicken suit right now? How do we start? Where is the beginning step to your own homecoming?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:14:34):
I start every session with the breath.
Mel Robbins (00:14:38):
Okay.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:14:39):
Because we are so busy and scattered and we have been tricked, duped, hoodwinked into believing I can prove my worthiness with my busyness. And so people can come in running a million miles and have believed themselves that if I'm so productive, I must be at home. But we often are not. And so I invite people to take a moment to tune into their breath, to inhale in through the nose and exhale out through the mouth and to begin to scan their bodies. Noticing any place where you're holding tension and sending breath throughout the body, giving yourself permission to breathe and release as we set intentions for self-compassion and for clarity. And that's how we begin Again. I feel different. Yeah. Right. Tell me the different, what did you notice?
Mel Robbins (00:16:00):
I just noticed that my mind went quiet and I dropped out of my head and into my body.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:16:08):
That's it.
Mel Robbins (00:16:09):
And there was a slowing that went with this. Knowing that this feels better than the thoughts that are racing or the things that are on my mind or the sound that is distracting me, that it feels better. What's it feel like for you?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:16:26):
Right. It is the homecoming that I, and that's a part of the closing our eyes or lowering our gaze is when we're open, we're open to all the stimulation around us. And especially if you are a trauma survivor, you are tuned into other people. So what are they thinking? What are they feeling? What do they need? It's
Mel Robbins (00:16:50):
Dangerous to
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:16:51):
Relax.
Mel Robbins (00:16:52):
It's when you're a victim of trauma and discrimination
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:16:54):
And
Mel Robbins (00:16:55):
Violence,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:16:56):
Then truth shows up and many of us suppress and run and hide. And so then that heightens the belief that I can't see myself. And so that keeps us running. So instead to give people permission and with the support because they're not having to face it by themselves, I'm with them for us to actually tune in to what's going on in there and to start to look at what are the signs of my disconnection. So that's where the journey begins for us to notice where is my disconnection showing up in me?
Mel Robbins (00:17:38):
So if homecoming means coming back home and feeling connected to your most authentic self, to recognizing the eagle that is in there and ignoring what everybody said and all the stuff around you that makes you chicken, makes you feel like a chicken, what are the signs of disconnection?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:17:59):
So when we are in a place of feeling powerless, hopelessness, despair, those are indicators that we have lost sight of our power and voice. Because the truth is we do have capacity, voice and agency, but we've been in environments where that wasn't welcomed or that wasn't responded to. And so then that can leave us feeling like we're empty.
Mel Robbins (00:18:24):
And there's a story you tell in the book about being at a event where you're giving one of the bazillion keynote speeches that you give and a survivor of sexual abuse comes up to you. Can you share that story?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:18:39):
Yes. So I was speaking at a conference on sexual assault, and I'm a sexual assault survivor, and I give the presentation and when it's over, people are responding really well. And then I'm standing there in this line, which I know you are used to, and there's a long line of people waiting to share their response or their connection to what you said. And I see toward the back of the line, this woman who we would say had a bad attitude, but I know attitude is despair, but
Mel Robbins (00:19:12):
Hold on a second. Attitude is despair.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:19:17):
So a form of depression people often don't recognize is irritable depression. Right?
Mel Robbins (00:19:26):
Wow.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:19:26):
And people don't respond to compassion with compassion to women with a bad attitude. But if we said, when I see that woman she's in despair, maybe then I would respond with compassion. But some of us, by family, by culture, by religion, we're taught that sadness is weakness. So we mask our sadness with anger, with bitterness, with attitude, but underneath it is the despair. It's
Mel Robbins (00:19:57):
So true.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:19:58):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:19:58):
It's like an iceberg. You see the anger on the top, but there's something so much deeper
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:20:02):
Going on, so much deeper underneath.
Mel Robbins (00:20:05):
Wow.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:20:05):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:20:06):
So you could pick up on the attitude
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:20:08):
And the energy, but I know there's the story there, especially because when you know haven't done anything. So I am feeling on the receiving end of your upset, and I haven't done anything so that I know there's a story. So when it gets to be her place, she's next in the line and she says to me with the attitude, so you're a survivor. And I said, look, I just gave a whole keynote on it. I say yes. And she says, well, you don't look like any survivor I've ever known. So the doubting can be triggering as we think about not being believed.
(00:20:53):
But then I go deeper than that and decide not to get defensive. Instead, I just let her question slash statement hang in the air, and I just, what I would say soften. I soften. And I just look at her and it's like, now she can see me on the stage with my PowerPoint and my pants suit. She couldn't see me. She could only see the strength and the oratorical skills.
(00:21:29):
But now standing in front of her kind of woman to woman, she could see the vulnerability and seeing the vulnerability. She said, the only survivors I've ever known were fat and poor like me. Then it's the different ways our surviving shows up. And for some of us who are often overlooked, we coped with busyness and with what I would call a spirit of excellence. And when you are excellent, people don't notice your wounds. And sometimes you don't notice them, you feel you've outrun it, but it's there late at night, early in the morning when you're in certain environments, it shows up that it's still bleeding and you've just gotten busy but not healed.
Mel Robbins (00:22:33):
What's the difference? I guess what is healing?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:22:38):
So it is the homecoming of being accepting and loving of myself. When I accept me, I have nothing to prove. There's a life coach here in Los Angeles. I'm going to give you her name later, but she has a beautiful quote I love, which is, I don't want to be driven. I want to be called. And this idea of when you're driven you're trauma can drive you your insecurity where you have to constantly prove yourself, and it's this franticness versus when I'm at home, then I can be in flow with what is me.
Mel Robbins (00:23:39):
Wow. If you have somebody in your life who has that irritable depression, how do you practice softening and compassion? Oftentimes, if you're around somebody who's constantly irritable, who is always angry about or frustrated with something, I have several people that come to mind right now in my own life. What are some tools that we can use to practice more compassion in those moments so that we lead with compassion rather than get so reactive?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:24:19):
And I love that question because I think what we often get pulled into is being combative with them, and they're always going to outat us because they're in warrior mode. And so when they come with the intensity, then I respond to the softness. And I would say one of two ways. One is if I can relate at all, I'll give my own experience. And that helps them not to feel judged. I'm not saying like calling you out, I see what you're doing. It's just saying there was a time where, and whatever that story is, and often I have learned transparency is contagious. And sometimes then people say, oh, me too. And I'm like, yeah, you too. Yeah, you too.
(00:25:12):
So the testimonial or if I know anything that's been happening in their life to name that to say, because responding with all this intensity about distraction. So then I will say, well, I really wanted to check in because I know this is such a busy time with you that you're moving, that you're this, that you're that. And for us to ask a deeper question because how are you gives us finding you. So break out of the script. And so instead with everything you're holding, what's been helping you to manage, right? Or what do you need or how can I help? So I'm speaking to the unspoken.
Mel Robbins (00:25:59):
If you bring in the chicken and the eagle, can we use that fable to describe that moment where the survivor in the audience has this irritable depressive moment with you? What is happening for her in your opinion as a psychologist?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:26:21):
So I like to say the reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle. Say that again. The reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle. So what area of your life are you settling?
Mel Robbins (00:26:45):
And I would imagine that any area where you feel unsettled
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:26:49):
Right there, it's there. So what happens is often we are focused so much outwardly, if only if only my spouse would do this, if only my kids would do this, if only my supervisor would do this. And in this moment, we don't have the capacity to shift them. So how might you want to
Mel Robbins (00:27:12):
Shift? That's a big ask because it's easier to try to order everybody else
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:27:18):
Around in life and frustrating and annoying and draining. But it also lets me off the hook because I can keep waiting for their homecoming. I can come home to myself when they come home to themselves. Well, everybody is on their own timing. And what I like to remind myself is I don't want to keep my healing hostage waiting for the healing of those who harmed me.
Mel Robbins (00:27:49):
Oh, wow.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:27:53):
And that's what we're doing when we're waiting for the apology.
Mel Robbins (00:27:56):
It's
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:27:56):
Like, I can't heal till you see what you did to me.
Mel Robbins (00:27:59):
Yes,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:28:00):
That could be years.
Mel Robbins (00:28:01):
It might be your whole lifetime.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:28:02):
It may be your whole life. They have gone on with their lives, they don't care, they're not thinking about it. And so I want to take my healing out of their hands
Mel Robbins (00:28:15):
And give it back to yourself. And so the process of coming home and the homecoming is the act of self-healing. It's about joining back in with yourself because we have such a huge international audience, and therapy can be very expensive. I would love for you to read these six questions that you often ask patients that can be a sign of what you call psychological homelessness. And so I would also love for you, Dr. Tama too, talk about what is psychological homelessness? I've never heard that phrase before, but it makes so much sense.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:28:58):
So psychological homelessness is this sense of wandering, being ungrounded, unrooted confused, and we can spend years saying, I don't know. I'm not sure. And even when I'm waiting for other people to give me the answer, then they're my compass. But I need a compass because that's what we talk about with therapy is at some point people need to internalize it. So it's not just every week people coming and saying, so Tamima, what do you think?
(00:29:36):
They have to get to the point where I was having this conversation with my sister and I realized I was doing this well there it's right now you have become your compass. Here are the questions. Does the state of your life internally or externally fall short of what you imagined? Did you attain what you thought you wanted only to discover that you still feel empty and unfulfilled? Do you have a sense of powerlessness or hopelessness? Do you lack the energy or motivation to pursue the things that used to matter to you? Do you feel there are no words to capture the ache in your heart? Do you find yourself crying often or does it seem impossible to cry
Mel Robbins (00:30:34):
If somebody resonates with any of those questions?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:30:38):
Yeah,
Mel Robbins (00:30:39):
What should they do?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:30:40):
Yes. So I want to first say to anyone who connected with those, you've taken the first step, which is awareness. Because I can't come home to myself if I don't realize I'm wandering. Sometimes we don't realize it. You can. Time is passing and you don't know it.
(00:31:00):
So the fact that in this moment as you're listening, you chose to tell yourself the truth, that is your mind, heart, body, spirit telling to you, we are ready because when we don't feel ready, we are distracting ourselves. We're busying ourselves, and then truth shows up. So telling yourself the truth is the first step. And then we think about both self-care and community care. And sometimes when we don't feel good about ourselves, we neglect ourselves and we erase ourselves. And those can have cultural messages and gender messages and religious messages where people will say, self-care is selfish. And so to say to myself, I am not just a tool for other people's nourishing, I am not just a pathway for other people to get goodness in life, that I too am a living soul that is deserving of the goodness that I want other people to experience.
(00:32:15):
And so it is a sacred act to begin to care for ourselves. And the catch is when we talk about behavioral psychology with behavioral psychology, you start to do the action even if you don't feel it yet. So if I say I'm, I'm going to wait until I have high self-esteem and then take good care of myself, it's not going to work.
(00:32:39):
So I have to start doing it even when I don't feel it, right?
Mel Robbins (00:32:44):
Yes. The word that keeps coming to mind is purpose. So you hear a lot of people say, I don't know what my purpose is. I need to find a purpose. Is that a code word for I am disconnected from myself?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:32:55):
That is definitely a code word. And the name came back to me of the life coach I quoted. So I just want to give Shannon, Yvette is the one who gave the quote I said earlier, but when people don't have a sense of their purpose, that's an indication of disconnection. I also want to say when we are in unhealthy relationships and on toxic jobs, in order to survive those, you have to disconnect. It's impossible to be at home with yourself and stay in relationship with someone who is dishonoring you perpetually.
Mel Robbins (00:33:34):
Wow. So for somebody that just had a wake up call,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:33:45):
Then you can have compassion for yourself because people will judge you and say like, why'd you stay so long? But you weren't connected to you. You had been disconnected from yourself. So you don't even feel the capacity to dream again, to imagine, to believe that better is possible for you and that you are deserving of it and worthy of it.
Mel Robbins (00:34:11):
We see this both in relationships and jobs all the time. In fact, you have a whole chapter about how to handle a toxic work environment,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:34:19):
Right?
Mel Robbins (00:34:19):
So if somebody is listening to this and they're on their way in to a job that is slowly just draining their soul, the first step is to acknowledge it and to recognize that you're disconnected from yourself and you already gave us the way that you would know any area that you are unsettled in that does not feel cohesive, that is where you're settling. That is a point of disconnection. You talk to us about breathing, close your eyes, come back into your body. You've talked also about self-care. What does that mean?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:34:58):
Yeah. So self-care is nourishing every part of yourself. So there is the physical part. So it is hard to heal and come home to yourself if you're living out of vending machines in drive-through windows. Why? Because your food affects your mood and there's nothing life giving in fake food. So as I like to say, as your grandmother would say, put some vegetables on that plate, put some greens on that plate. So fruit and vegetables, I like to think of before I eat something, can I say, I'm eating this because I love myself
(00:35:43):
And some things I won't be able to put in my body because I actually want to live. And we have it flipped where we will call those things the treat. I am treating myself by giving myself something that's killing me. So to have to flip it. And of course in moderation, because when people hear that, they're like, do you mean I can never have? Right. And drinking water instead of all the soda. Sleep is a big one. It is hard to come home to yourself when you're exhausted. We are busy, busy, and then all night people are on their phones or up and can't sleep. And I say, if your idea, and hopefully this is okay to say,
Mel Robbins (00:36:30):
You can say whatever you want. Okay?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:36:32):
Yes. If your idea of relaxing before you go to sleep is watching three episodes of Law and Order, I would encourage you to think about why is trauma relaxing to me?
Mel Robbins (00:36:44):
Oh,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:36:47):
That's what it is. I mean, it's harm, crime, violation, attacks, and that's what is going to soothe me into my bedtime. So what is
Mel Robbins (00:36:57):
The answer that a lot of people give you when they do go into therapy about that connection? Is
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:37:05):
That it's normal and familiar. Some of us grew up in high stress. So we think calmness is either fake or boring. People mistake peace for boring. And it's like to come home to yourself, you have to lean into the discomfort because it's going to feel familiar. I was working with a client, an adult woman, and her mom, and they had been disconnected because the mother dealt with addiction and didn't raise her, but they are reconnected now and living together. And the adult daughter really wanted her mom to say she loves her. And the mother just said to me, that just seems fake. So she had not grown up with that, had not heard it to her. It's like something people do on tv. And so I said to her, if you mean it, it's not fake. It just feels like it because you're not used to saying it.
Mel Robbins (00:38:20):
It is amazing how many people don't tell the people that they love, that they love them, and it hadn't occurred to me. It's because they never were told that and that it might feel forced or not authentic.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:38:39):
Yes.
Mel Robbins (00:38:40):
Whoa.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:38:41):
Yeah. And that's the importance of us learning each other's love languages because her response was the response of probably many of her generation, which was you had food on the table, or you have a roof
Mel Robbins (00:38:55):
Over
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:38:55):
Your head.
Mel Robbins (00:38:56):
Yes. What more do you want from me?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:38:57):
Right. What more,
Mel Robbins (00:39:00):
I love also that homecoming is not only therapy, that there is a deeply spiritual aspect to this.Â
Mel Robbins (00:39:10):
Sort of the the, how would you describe the difference between therapy and spirituality and the work that you need to do in both areas?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:39:20):
Right. So unfortunately, many people who are in the mental health field did not get trained to incorporate spirituality. And so there's research that shows on average mental health professionals endorse a lower level of spirituality or religiosity than the general public.
Mel Robbins (00:39:40):
Really? Yes. Why do you think that is?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:39:42):
Well, I think a part of that can go with higher levels of education that a lot of times people can disconnect, as with education can feel like they need to prove everything.
(00:39:59):
And spirituality is beyond our proving or our being able to manipulate it. So it's like it's not concrete. And so that's in the field of psychology. The actual founders in the field were often people of faith. But then there was this move in the field where we wanted to prove we are a science, so we want to prove that we're a science. Then we can't talk about anything people find spooky or soft or in some other realm. And so then there has been a neglect from it from that area. And then I think the other part of it has been the recognition that some people have been harmed in spiritual spaces. So then some therapists will overgeneralize and think that it is all harmful as opposed to whenever you get people together, you're going to have some good and some some things that are healthy or unhealthy.
Mel Robbins (00:41:01):
What is your definition of spirituality?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:41:04):
It is an awareness of the sacred beyond what we can see.
Mel Robbins (00:41:10):
Oh, I love that definition. And now that we're on this topic, it occurs to me, how could you possibly heal without pulling faith and a belief that something that you have not experienced is possible?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:41:28):
That's it. 100%. I even say to be a therapist, social worker, life coach, any of these things, you have to have faith. And for people to show up, there has to be a faith that there can be more than what I have seen and what I have experienced. It's like when I'm counseling people who have only had unhealthy relationships, and I have to say, just because this one is better doesn't mean it's good if you were just used to bad treatment. If people call you back, you're like, oh, right. They called me back and it's like, that was nice, but there's more. Right? There's more.
Mel Robbins (00:42:03):
Yes, yes. So we've kind of started stepping toward this awareness. How do you combine the spiritual practice and the belief in something that you may have never experienced or seen with the work to start to heal, orÂ
Mel Robbins (00:42:25):
As you say, repair it yourself in the physical space?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:42:28):
That's right. So a part of it is what gives us the motivation to do the work. Because a lot of times we're operating based on evidence, which is what we've seen. So if I've only had bad experiences, my parents abandoned me, this person left me, this person mistreated me. If I believe that is all that exists, then the conclusion would be I am unworthy. That's the only possible conclusion because this idea, this victim blaming, self-blaming of if I deserved better, I would've received better. And you will hear people blaming other people for being mistreated. They'll say, oh, well, you must have allowed it. So in order for me to come to a different conclusion that I am worthy of what I have not yet experienced, I have to have the belief of the more,
Mel Robbins (00:43:28):
How the heck do you do that when your whole life you have experienced either abuse or mistreatment or discrimination or violence. When you have evidence that does make you feel unworthy, because I'm sure you get these dms and these emails all day long. So do we of people who so want to believe that they're worthy, that something is better, that they can change your life for the better, and you and I can sit where we are and go. Of course you can. I have just wait. I have so much evidence that it's possible. It's both spiritual, and I could argue the case.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:08):
Yes.
Mel Robbins (00:44:09):
But for somebody who is sitting in the disbelief, how do you cross
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:15):
Over to belief? Yeah. So it's a couple of levels. One of them is to get people to reflect on what do they believe all human beings
Mel Robbins (00:44:28):
Deserve? Well, I believe I'm a chicken and all I see are chickens, and I believe I'm on the ground. You know what I'm saying? Yes, yes. We go back to this. How do you possibly convince yourself that you could be an eagle if you've never seen one?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:40):
Yes, yes. So what we connect with is disrupting what we call the cognitive distortions. So it's not just, that's a
Mel Robbins (00:44:49):
Big word.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:50):
What is cognitive
Mel Robbins (00:44:51):
Distortion?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:51):
So your false thoughts, the lies.
Mel Robbins (00:44:54):
Okay,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:54):
The lies you told yourself and the lies other people told you.
Mel Robbins (00:44:57):
What if,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:44:59):
Let me give you an example of the lies. So for people who were molested, they either were told directly or indirectly that is their fault that they developed early, or it's because they shouldn't have been over there, or whatever it is that somehow that's on you. And so we have to demonstrate that that is a lie. So how do I demonstrate that that is a lie? Does every girl who develops breast early deserve to be molested?
Mel Robbins (00:45:38):
Of course not.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:45:41):
So you are not an exception to that rule.
Mel Robbins (00:45:46):
Oh, I see. Yeah. I can see another lie because I'm a survivor of that kind of abuse. It's the shh, don't tell anyone or you'll get in trouble.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:46:03):
Yeah, yeah. And what I learned about that, I say from my own journey is I was taught that keeping quiet kept the peace until I realized whose peace is it keeping? Oh, right. The offenders at peace, the people who don't want to deal with it at peace. And I in this little body am holding all of the war, so I don't want to hold it anymore. Wow. Yeah. This is what we're taught. You're going to upset things, you're going to upset people. Nobody wants to hear that. And yeah, there's no peace whose peace are you keeping? Yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:46:59):
You're making it easy for everybody else as it's slowly destroying you.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:47:04):
Absolutely. And often then they're doing it to multiple people over the course of years. The silence gives freedom for it to continue.
Mel Robbins (00:47:15):
How do you counsel people who in the process of starting to come back home to themselves, to learn to fly, to stop holding the peace for other people around you? How do you counsel people to then go back into their life? Let's just say it's a relationship where you have somebody that you're dating or in relationship with and there's alcohol or drugs, you've had the conversation, you've gone around and around and around, and you're the one that's not saying anything. So you're keeping the peace for them. How do you handle that sort of disruption in your life now that you're starting to, because it's scary. Yes. The homecoming process can also be scary. You're going to have
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:48:10):
To confront things, and it's going to require some losses. And some people are not going to be happy with the new you. People like the silent you, they like the compliant you. They like the doormat, you who wouldn't like that? So when you start getting some opinions and start getting your voice and not wanting to do some of the unhealthy things you've been doing, not everyone is going to celebrate. And that will be important for you to see who wants me whole and who prefers me broken. And then I will have to start making some adjustments. And there are a range of ways we can do it. So in the work chapter, we say there's one path for if I want to stay on this job and how do I restore myself, and there's another path where I need to leave this job. And in relationship with people, whether romantic or otherwise, some I will have to end and some it will have to be different because I'm different. And there can be a grieving there.
Mel Robbins (00:49:19):
In your new role, you are really wanting to bring access to therapy, to mental health support, to the process of a homecoming for people to as many people as possible. So why is therapy? What is therapy and why is it important?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:49:43):
So therapy is when you have a trained licensed facilitator who understands how to journey with you from where you are back home to yourself without judgment and with compassion and without needing you to take care of them.
Mel Robbins (00:50:07):
Oh,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:50:09):
That last part was the big one. That's the big one. That's why your friend is not the same thing. Your family member is not the same thing.
Mel Robbins (00:50:18):
Wow. Yeah. I had always said objective and licensed, but the fact that you just said you don't have to take care of them. That's right.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:50:30):
Wow. Yeah, that's the huge part, especially for those of us who have tendencies toward taking care of people. Right. So then in your other relationships that you'll say, I don't want to burden people, or I know they have a lot going on, so let me just pour into them. Well, this is the space where you don't have to give, you don't have to be on. You don't have to do that. I tell my clients I'm good. I have spaces outside of here that are for me, so you don't have to worry. I have the capacity to hold it, and that's what we need.
Mel Robbins (00:51:07):
And you also have the tools to help us recognize and call ourselves out where we're being a chicken, where we could be an eagle and how to take flight.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:51:18):
And I will say it is so important to have the tools and the understanding because people who don't will often, let's say if you have a child who's depressed and their parents just call them lazy, they don't understand what they're looking at. And so that's a part of what's important as well, is perspective and insight into what I'm seeing.
Mel Robbins (00:51:48):
If somebody in your life is struggling, I'm just going to send my husband to therapy, just going to send my kid to therapy. Does that work?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:51:57):
So there is a benefit of individual and family
(00:52:02):
Because I'll say, especially with children, what I saw when I first started was people would drop off their child and I would spend an hour building this kid up, and then they pick them up and in the parking lot, they're cussing the kid out. It's like, they didn't even make it home. So are we just going to do this every week? And so now I'm seeing what the real dynamic is. So with couples, I will say there is a part of our work that is individual. Let's say if I'm working with a sexual trauma survivor, there's a part that person's journey. But then there's a part for the couple to say, what will the intimacy be like for us given the history and how do we support each other and have patience with each other? And I want to name as we're talking about people, it's not only self-care, but community care.
Mel Robbins (00:52:57):
Let's talk about that. What does that even mean?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:52:59):
Yeah. So we heal in relationship to other people. There is something very liberating and healing in being known. Like you reveal yourself and people still love you, that people still choose you, that people that you feel seen and heard and supported. There's emotional social support, which is like someone I can cry with, someone. I can share my good news with someone who I can vent to. But then there's also instrumental social support. Are there people who can help me in concrete, practical ways? And it's important that we know which friend or family member is good at what you may have a relative who's not touchy feely, they're not good with the tears, but they can help you find a job. So that's another type of support.
Mel Robbins (00:53:50):
Yeah, I'm surprised and saddened by the number of people that will reach out when they hear you say that and say, I have no one.
(00:54:00):
When you have somebody that you are working with who is telling themselves the story that I have, no one, what are the rituals or the tools or the tactics? Because you give homework in this room. Every chapter has homework. I would imagine every counseling session that you do as a therapist has homework. So what would the homework be? If you're somebody who says, I have no one,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:54:25):
Then one of our goals will be to make friends and at first get their buy-in. Can we say that that's a goal for you, is to make friends? And so then we have to think about where are we going to get these friends? Sometimes it's brand new people. So it may be you sign up for a cooking class, or you join a book club, or you join a political organization or your yoga group. And then sometimes you have people, but you have kept it very surface.
(00:54:56):
So then I want to deepen my relationships. The surgeon general has been talking recently and issued the advisory about loneliness. What I like to tell people is loneliness is nothing to be ashamed of. Some people when they hear you say you're lonely, they just say You need to love yourself. And I like to say, that's not the same thing.
(00:55:19):
You can love yourself and still desire a connection to other people. So that is not an automatic absence of self-love. And so then if I have acquaintances that are all very surface, then to deepen it, am I willing to go deeper? Because again, I can start to shift the tide. When I talk about deeper things, then other people will often meet me there.
Mel Robbins (00:55:48):
And what about, you talked, we just touched on this, and I know so many people do not like what they do for a living. And in the book you write about having a job that was very toxic. Can you describe what it felt like to walk into work and how you practice a homecoming when you're in a toxic
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:56:07):
Environment? Yes. It is so stressful in your body, in your mind, and that's even before you can do your work. Just the true, the social Sunday scaries, the driving in. Oh, dreading it, it's, and so then of course, you can't flow in a spirit of excellence because you're battling all of these other dynamics. And so I like to encourage people to create a morning ritual so that you show up with your cup already full.
Mel Robbins (00:56:39):
So can you give us an example? What does that mean?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:56:41):
Yes. So first of all, wake up before you have to get up.
Mel Robbins (00:56:45):
Okay, what does that mean?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:56:46):
That means don't set your alarm for the time. You have to jump out of bed and jump in the shower. Now you've already started your day frantic.
Mel Robbins (00:56:52):
Yes.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:56:53):
So now I'm going into a toxic place already feeling anxious.
Mel Robbins (00:56:56):
Okay,
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:56:56):
So you want to wake up a little bit earlier and then figure out what are the practices that would nourish me for some people that will be listening to music, I like to say, and every season of your life, come up with your theme song. Your theme song will get you in the right mindset, doing some stretching next to the bed body movement exercise. Some people go for early morning walk, so then they already feel settled and slowed down. Meditation and or prayer, reading, something inspirational. And that can kind of create the mantra for your day.
Mel Robbins (00:57:34):
Why is this matter? Because when somebody's like, you have no idea. I have this abusive boss and these jerks that I work with, and I can't quit, and I've got bills to play. Don't sit here, Dr. Tama, and tell me that I should freaking stretch. Go for a walk. Are you
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:57:53):
Crazy, woman?
Mel Robbins (00:57:54):
Why does this matter?
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:57:56):
I want to introduce you to the part of you that is not an employee. You are more than your labor.
Mel Robbins (00:58:04):
Oh.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:58:06):
Yeah. So if we center our full session every week on your boss, then all you are is your boss's worker. And there is a you beyond your boss.
Mel Robbins (00:58:19):
Wow. Is that true about being in a bad relationship
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:58:24):
Too? Yes. Yeah. That they consume a lot of your energy and time, but you were a person before you met them. And whether this continues or not, you're going to be a person. And we want to meet that person. We want to nourish that person because there is more to you than what they see. And a part of what they're responding to is they see the vastness of you and don't like it.
Mel Robbins (00:58:59):
You end every therapy session and every chapter of the book the same way. And you also end every episode of the Homecoming podcast the same way. So I would love to have you to invite you to end our conversation with it.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:59:21):
Beautiful. I invite your soul to tell your heart, mind, body and spirit. Welcome home,
Mel Robbins (00:59:35):
Doctor Tamma Bryant. You are a gift from God to all of us.
Dr. Thema Bryant (00:59:41):
Oh, thank you so much. And I want each of you who are listening to know you're worthy of the journey home,
Mel Robbins (00:59:50):
Dr. Tama. That is such a beautiful vision, helping all of us to be the lightposts along the way to get each other home. If I really stop and think about it, one of the reasons why I always end my episodes with the same sentiment every single time is because I'm trying to help you return home to yourself. That's why I always remind you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life and find your way back home to yourself. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Dr. Thema Bryant, PhD
Dr. Thema Bryant is a psychologist, ordained minister, and author specializing in trauma recovery and cultivating joy.
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Book: Homecoming
In the aftermath of stress, disappointment, and trauma, people often fall into survival mode, even while a part of them longs for more. Juggling multiple demands and responsibilities keeps them busy, but not healed. As a survivor of sexual assault, racism, and evacuation from a civil war in Liberia, Dr. Thema Bryant knows intimately the work involved in healing. Having made the journey herself, in addition to guiding others as a clinical psychologist and ordained minister, Dr. Thema shows you how to reconnect with your authentic self and reclaim your time, your voice, your life.
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Podcast: Homecoming
The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema is a podcast to facilitate your journey home to yourself by providing weekly inspiration and health tips. Welcome home!
Resources
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- Psycom: How to find affordable therapy.
- Scientific American: A new dimension to a meaningful life.
- University of Minnesota: Why is spirituality important?
- Frontiers: Spirituality and your health and well-being.
- Mindsplain: How can I be happy when others are suffering?
- American Psychological Association: Resilience in a time of war for parents.
- TODAY: How to manage war anxiety.
- US Dept of Justice: Coping after terrorism.
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