Change Your Relationship With Alcohol – How to Control Your Urge to Drink

Rachel Hart (00:30:11):

No, when it's happening,

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:13):

Oh,

 

Rachel Hart (00:30:14):

I love it's

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:14):

Happening right now because now I'm talking about it. But

 

Rachel Hart (00:30:19):

I love the sunset piece though, because the number of people that I have coached on, how am I supposed to sit on my porch anymore and enjoy a sunset? And it's like sunsets were enjoyable before you started drinking. The brain started to associate, oh, I get a reward when I watch a sunset. So now when you take the reward away, it feels like something's missing from the sunset. Nothing's missing from the sunset,

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:40):

Right? Okay. You're right. Except for the drink,

 

Rachel Hart (00:30:46):

Except

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:46):

A joke out of this. But I'm not really this cavalier about it, but I do feel like there's two camps here. It's poison. Nobody should ever drink. Drinking is a problem. I can already feel people who listen to the podcast who are sober, and it is a really powerful choice who are sober, and it's extremely powerful for them being upset by this conversation. And so I just want to say something, and this is a much deeper conversation than alcohol, and I want more people to listen to what you're saying than just people who think they have a problem with alcohol. I want every human being to listen to this conversation and feel like this applies to you because it does. Because you're talking about the subconscious drivers that create your relationship to food, to alcohol, to money, to all of your behaviors, by the way. And alcohol is just one piece of this. And I'm going to keep on making jokes because I think when I make a joke that now I'm thinking about the margarita, which is true, most people that have alcohol in their life actually operate that way. When you see the sunset, you're thinking about the drink you're going to have tonight. So now when I leave here and I have the urge, just as I'm walking downstairs, I say, oh, I'm having that urge to make a drink.

 

Rachel Hart (00:32:23):

So you can say it to yourself. You can say it out loud. Both of it works. The idea is really just acknowledging what's going on. Oh, this is an urge. I'm having an urge right now. This is desire. Oh, how normal of it's here, right? This isn't a problem. This is what my brain learned. I mean, I think of the number of times that I would watch Mad Men and immediately be like, I mean, I'm fixing a cocktail and smoking a cigarette right now. But there was no, I was kind of on autopilot, and I just didn't have that full awareness of what was going on as opposed to like, oh, of course this is desire. Of course, I'm having an urge to fix a cocktail and smoke a cigarette right now because seeing it in front of me, and I'm seeing it presented in this very sophisticated, enjoyable way. So it really is just starting to narrate. I think that's a very, very powerful thing to start to be able to narrate what your brain is doing because all of a sudden you're not at the effect of your brain. Part of you is watching it. And I will just add on the piece about it's poison and it's terrible. I really caution people about that. I know that there are people who find that very effective

 

(00:33:46):

And they go down the kind of rabbit hole of all the ways that it's harming you and it's bad for you. And I'm not denying that it can have negative consequences. But what I see happen to people, and I did this with myself as well, you start going down that rabbit hole of all the ways that it's harming you and all the poisonous toxic effects that it's having on your body. And you're still struggling to say no, or you're still drinking more than you want, and now you're waking up the next day and you're doubly stupid because now you really should know better. So not only was it like, oh God, why did I have that fourth glass? And I know all the harm that it's doing, and I know how bad it is for me.

 

(00:34:33):

And so there's already so much shame around drinking. People are so hard on themselves, it just becomes another layer of C, something really is wrong with me because now I know how bad it is. I know it's poisoning me as opposed to, listen alcohol. It's a fact of being alive on this planet. It existed before humans learned how to harness the process of fermentation. So it's just part of being alive. So what if instead of fixating on, it's so bad, the bad things that it's doing? I think that takes you away from this conversation that I think is more powerful. What does it represent? What is my desire really about? Why is it hard for me to say no? How do I feel when I'm the odd man out? What are those emotions that come up for me that is so much more powerful area, I think to start to get curious about rather than all the bad things that it's doing?

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:37):

Well, I agree with you, and even when you said the word name that it's a desire. And when I gave that example of it's dinner time, the sun is setting, I'm going to make a cocktail, the truth is the desire is to stop working. The desire is to exhale and stop thinking for a minute. The desire is to reward myself for a job well done. And in naming that, it also takes my focus off the drink and it helps me get present to what I actually want.

Mel Robbins (00:37:24):

Mind is, I need a hug.

 

Rachel Hart (00:37:30):

But isn't that harder to ask for sometimes than a drink?

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:33):

Well, you can't order one from a waiter. It's true. And I can make myself a drink so I don't have to ask for anything, right? But I can see that when you showed me that picture of yourself and I think about myself, what if I go to the 14-year-old me, that red solo cup represented a hug and being welcoming into the group. And so I can see what you're saying that there is a desire to name. When you feel that urge that is deeper than the food or the drink or the pair of jeans you're about to buy, that goes way deeper, and that's driving it. And so of course, you would want the thing. And of course, not giving yourself the jeans or the ice cream sundae or my tie feels like you're punishing yourself.

 

Rachel Hart (00:38:35):

Yeah.

 

Mel Robbins (00:38:37):

Wow. So once you label this desire and you start working through it, what are some of the things that once you've labeled it, you need to do so that the urge or this desire doesn't continue to drive you, but you start to change your relationship to the desire or the urge that you're having?

 

Rachel Hart (00:39:03):

Yeah, I think a big thing is just watching it pass. So that's a huge thing that a lot of people struggle with. It's like, listen, if I don't say yes, it's going to be nagging me all night long.

 

Mel Robbins (00:39:18):

Can I confess something to you? Of course. Is it normal for someone to be worried that you're about to tell me not to have a drink tonight,

 

Rachel Hart (00:39:31):

That I'm about to tell you

 

Mel Robbins (00:39:32):

Yes, that you're about to coach me through this process of noticing the urge, letting it rise and fall, and then at the end of this, I'm now going to have more conflict about the urge, and then you want to know how fucked up I am? Then I'm going to feel like this is now all evidence that I have an even bigger problem. That's how much of a shame cycle I'm in around this. And then I'm going to argue that what the fuck is wrong with one goddamn drink? Why did you book Rachel on this show? See, I, I'm really torturing myself. Is this normal? Is this what you see in the people you work with?

 

Rachel Hart (00:40:15):

Yes. This is very normal. I'm not going to tell you anything to do when it comes. I mean, I think that's actually a huge piece of my approach is that I don't know what's best for you. I'm not going to tell you what to do because you're just going to be then looking to me or looking for someone outside of you to tell you what's right. I think you have wisdom and information inside of you, and that's not like a wink wink. You shouldn't drink. I really do think that we have this ability to know what feels good for us and what feels like too much, but we can't access that if it's constantly in this place of like, oh God, I shouldn't even be wanting this, or I shouldn't even have this desire.

 

Mel Robbins (00:41:02):

I love your approach because I can tell you that in my twenties, thirties and early forties, I definitely had a drinking problem. No question. No fucking question. Whether it was the lever I pulled to relieve anxiety or it was escaping the shit show that my life had become when we were in financial trouble, or it was just a deep, I think sadness and feeling lost and disconnected, and how alcohol can make you social and make you fun and make you forget all that stuff. And just sort of that constant cycle of drinking and then regretting that I drank and regretting what I said. And as I go deeper and I think about the person that I am now, and the fact that especially having a husband that doesn't drink, if he's not having a drink most nights I don't have a drink. And I've wondered, especially given that I have a much healthier and balanced relationship with it, why the hell I am so conflicted? Why am I not proud of myself that I have gotten this to a point where it's not a problem and it hasn't been a problem for a long time? And what I'm realizing is that it's so much deeper because it's about these desires and emotional needs that I've paired with alcohol

 

(00:42:48):

And that I, at a fundamental level make myself wrong for wanting things. And because I can't tolerate the desire riding up and not fulfilling it, you reach for something because what's interesting, I bet if I were to do something, I bet if I were to just play the urge game, I would notice something thing, and I bet this is what I would notice. I bet that on the nights that I don't drink, just because I'm not going to have a drink alone and Chris isn't drinking or I don't feel like having one, I guarantee you I probably buy something I don't need, or I eat a big dessert, that I am probably so blind to the desire that rides that comes up in me that I don't even realize I'm just substituting one thing for another.

 

Rachel Hart (00:43:46):

Yeah, I got so much freedom out of that. I'm really understanding that I was so fixated on my drinking for so long and then was like, wait a minute, maybe it actually has nothing to do with my drinking. Maybe it's the way that I approach trying to fulfill my needs and meet my desires and deal with negative emotion and give myself permission to have pleasure. And it was showing up in so many areas of my life. I didn't think more is better just with a drink. I thought it was better with food. I thought it was better with stuff. I thought it was better with success. I thought it was better with money. I thought it was better with praise. That was just the overarching principle of how I was operating, and it wasn't just showing up for me in one place. And I think that created a lot of freedom for me because I walked around for a long time being like, I don't know. I've got eight different problems or not. Or maybe I have one thing that I'm working on, which is how to understand, identify how I'm feeling and what I need and how to be okay with an unmet desire and how to fulfill it elsewhere. That

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:13):

Is incredible what you just said, that there is one supermax problem underneath it all, and it's your unmet emotional needs and how you are fulfilling them and your ability to tolerate those moments when your unmet emotional needs go unfulfilled like that. You're exactly right.

 

Rachel Hart (00:45:39):

It's just such a relief. It was for me to be like, oh, it's just one thing. I'm just working on one thing.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:45):

How did you figure this out? Was there a particular moment? Did you have a massive bender? And then you're like, I can't drink again. Then you reverse engineered this. Did you go to school for, how did you figure this out?

 

Rachel Hart (00:45:56):

I spent my twenties going back and forth between, I'm drinking, I'm not drinking, I'm drinking, I'm not drinking. But the not drinking was always, you were bad. You should be ashamed of yourself. Now it's time to punish yourself. We're just going to focus on saying no. And so I would say no and say no, and feel like something was wrong with me and I was missing out, and I was very healthy, but wasn't enjoying myself as much. And then eventually I would give in and go pick up right back where I left off. And so I was in this process, in this cycle for so long, and I think I had some awareness that it was bigger than the drink. I don't know how, but I think because I understood that, I felt like I wasn't able to access a part of myself without the drink.

 

(00:46:50):

I remember believing that the fun, Rachel, the real Rachel, she comes out with a drink. And again, there was a part of me that was like, I don't think I always needed that. We may have to go very far back in time, but there was a much younger version of myself who felt comfortable in her skin and wasn't so worried about what people thought and wasn't always trying to avoid making mistakes. That version of me existed at maybe I was three or four. I was very young, but I had that sense that she had been there and somehow I had lost her.

 

(00:47:29):

And so I think it felt like, okay, I need to figure out a way to return to that. I need to figure out a way to get that back. And I will tell you the work of Brene Brown I found incredibly powerful because she talks about numbing. She talks about all of the things that we try to use. So she talks about, I remember this one paragraph where she's talking about the chips and queso and the cigarettes and the beer and the perfectionism and all these things and that. I remember reading that being like, oh, that's me. That's what's going on. So I started doing this work. I started learning about it. I decided I wanted to become a coach, and that's really how I got here. That's really kind of the journey that I was on. I think in part I was very frustrated that we have such a limited, narrow conversation how we talk about this. It's kind of like, do I have a problem or I have a problem, am I an alcoholic or am I a normal drinker? We're very black and white, and I think there are a lot of people that feel like they're in this kind of in between. And being in that in-between can feel incredibly frustrating. And it's like nobody understands my situation or what's going on for me.

 

Mel Robbins (00:48:52):

And because it's been framed as two extremes, that always makes you feel like one's bad, one's good. You know what I'm saying? It's been really challenging to try to locate yourself. So when somebody comes to you and they say, I just want to figure out what a normal relationship with alcohol means for me, whether that means I never drink again, whether it means I have boundaries around it, whether it means I stop making myself wrong about it. What is the process you put somebody through and how do we start it for ourselves?

Mel Robbins (00:50:18):

Can we take some of them and can you share some of the common things that you hear?

 

Rachel Hart (00:50:23):

Oh, sure. Well, I mean over and over again, the thought that people have that I also shared is like, I'm just an all or nothing person. I think I have an addictive personality. I think I'm just very compulsive with my behaviors. I also had, I think my brain is missing an off switch. So when I ask people, well, what is the struggle about? It's always pointing to something kind of wrong with me, defective with my brain. Some part of me is not functioning correctly as opposed to what I'm trying to help people see is what are the tools you need? What are the skills that you need to be able, not only to be curious about your urge, but also to allow yourself to have this unanswered desire and not make it into a problem or something terrible that we have to avoid. But yeah, I'm an all or nothing person. That's a pretty common one.

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:18):

Also, as you were saying, some of these questions, I was thinking, well, what does it mean? You asked one about what does it mean to have a drink?

 

(00:51:28):

I started thinking about all these situations. Well, it's celebratory. It is like you're celebrating somebody. It's something you do in groups. It's a lot of fun, and it is a way to bond with somebody else. It's a way to enjoy something. I have a lot of, I don't want to miss out. If somebody opens up, we were at a friend's house the other night and they opened up one of those super expensive French bottles of wine where you have to push the gray dust off of it that had been gifted to them by somebody. And I'm like, Ooh, I'm not going to miss out on that. I wasn't particular. I hadn't had a drink that night. But the second they pulled that out, it's like the gene of fomo. This is going to be expensive. I'm going to try this shit. And so when you think about excuses and the big question that you asked at the end, which is what was the big question? It made my heart go, oh God,

 

Rachel Hart (00:52:29):

If you couldn't drink again, if it was like, sorry, Mel, we're telling you you can't drink for the rest of your life.

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:35):

I would feel like I'd never have fun again. I'd miss out on all the celebrations.

 

Rachel Hart (00:52:44):

I was like, I'm sorry. How are we supposed to watch March madness? What? Am I ever going to have sex again? I don't understand what I was like, are you kidding? So am I ever going to go to a wedding? Should I just not go to weddings anymore? I'm not going to have sex. We're not going to enjoy sports. I guess I'm never going to dance in public. There were just so many things. I was like, well, you got to be kidding me. You're literally talking about a miserable life. So yeah, no, thank you. I'll pass.

 

Mel Robbins (00:53:17):

So what do you do if that's everything that you think? How do you handle the excuses? Because obviously none of that's true. That's just a story you're telling yourself, and part of your methodology is getting you to go deeper than the thing that you are reaching for and getting to go deeper around these stories and these excuses that you have and understanding it. So when somebody fills all that out and they're like, okay, I'm never going to have sex. I'm not going to dance in public. I can't go to a sports game. My life will be no fun. All my friends who drink won't ever invite me out. I'm an endure awkward moment after awkward moment where everybody else orders a drink and I'm like, could I have a seltzer? Please? Can I have the mocktail menu? And you feel like all of that, and I don't want to miss out on all the fun and I don't want to do, when you write out your excuses, that almost makes you feel like you would retreat toward binge drinking.

 

Rachel Hart (00:54:15):

Yeah. Like, oh, we have nothing to look forward to, right?

 

Mel Robbins (00:54:19):

Yes.

 

Rachel Hart (00:54:20):

So one of the things I talk about in all those situations that I listed, the worst thing that's going to happen is a feeling

 

Mel Robbins (00:54:28):

That's true,

 

Rachel Hart (00:54:31):

But I don't think we understand it that way. No. The worst thing that's going to happen is my life is going to be over. So you start to be like, okay, so what is that feeling that comes up when I get on the dance floor totally sober? What is that feeling that I'm having when I'm sitting in the stands watching baseball and everybody has a beer and I, what is that feeling to start to identify the real issue here is not the drink. The real issue is this feeling that it's like, oh God, if this comes up, then there's nothing to do. Right?

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:13):

What's interesting is I'm realizing that the more that you apply this to your life, the more that what you're doing is you're just teaching people how to handle the feelings that come with not reaching for what you normally reach for in that situation.

 

Rachel Hart (00:55:33):

Yeah. I mean, it starts even just with identifying what the feeling is, because that's a huge piece of what I had to do a lot of work on, because I was like, first off, feelings are gross. Why are we talking about them? Ew, I'm not a touchy feely person. So that was my starting point. Can we just, let's talk about something logical, not be in this touchy feely emotional stuff. But then I was just like, I'm fine. I'm fine. Nothing's wrong. I'm fine. I didn't even really have the ability to articulate what was going on a lot of the time. That's a huge piece that I work on with people. It's like, okay, fine's, not a feeling. How are we actually feeling? So again, much like your urges, the ability to just name and notice and also not make it a problem. I feel disappointed. Now how human of me, that's okay. 

Mel Robbins (00:56:41):

I'm reflecting on moments of my life in the last couple of years where I didn't drink and wouldn't have it, whether it's dry January or doing various challenges for a couple months. And everything that you're saying is exactly right because I would have these urges come up from five to seven at night, and the second that I got through that sort of the wave of feeling, and I didn't feel like having a drink anymore because it wasn't about the drink. It was about the desire of feeling a boundary with work or a desire to join in, or a desire to feel that liquid hug or a desire to just be comforted, and it did pass. I guess what I want to make sure that anybody listening has is if you're like me and you feel, I feel much calmer now, I feel like I understand what the work actually is. If I want to get curious about what would a relationship with or with alcohol really look like, for me, that's very empowering.

 

(00:58:04):

But for anybody listening, what is the place to start? How do you even begin this inquiry if it doesn't involve not drinking for 30 days? What do you recommend your clients do when somebody comes to you and they're as spun around as I was when we started this conversation? I dunno, is it poison? Is it this? Is there something wrong with me? Maybe there's something wrong with me. What's wrong with me? What is wrong with me? Why shouldn't I have one? Just where do you begin when you're in the middle of this very conflicted, normal relationship with alcohol, which most people are in. I think most people live there.

 

Rachel Hart (00:58:47):

Yeah, I agree. And I start people with really just starting to learn about urges, learn about the brain, right? Learn about, yeah, I've got a higher brain and I've got a lower brain, and they've got different priorities because this is a piece that most people just have no awareness of because we're not taught anything about it. And I think really just learning, getting some basic information, that is the best place to start. It really is, because I think it does kind of dial back intensity of it like, oh, wait, so you're saying that an urge is normal and not a problem, and doesn't mean that I have to wear a label for the rest of my life, and it's just like dialing that back can be really powerful, understanding, 

Mel Robbins (00:59:39):

Oh my God, I just got something. I just got something really powerful. Holy shit. I just realized the hidden fricking superpower in what you're talking about, which is if you focus and become very curious about the desire that comes up, the urge that comes up, the emotion that's underneath it, all the kind of story that you tell yourself, you direct your attention to that exploration, which is so important because here's what I'm realizing. Do you want to know why? I always lose the battle with myself when I wake up in the morning and I say, I'm not having a drink tonight, or I start a Sunday night and I say, I'm not going to drink this week. I'll just wait until next weekend, and then Monday rolls around six o'clock, I downstairs. It's the sunset. I feel the desire to pour a gin and tonic because this is my boundary between work. I now understand what it is when I start to get in conflict with myself, Rachel. Well you said you weren't going to have a drink, but I feel like having a drink, what's wrong with having a drink? Well, you said you wouldn't and that's a lack of, I have a drink to shut that conflict down.

 

(01:01:05):

I'm not having a drink because I'm addicted to alcohol. I'm having a drink because I can't tolerate being in conflict with those two competing parts of me. Holy shit. That's why the drink habit always wins because it shuts it down and so

 

Rachel Hart (01:01:29):

Then it's really even less about alcohol, right? It's just like how am I making it? Okay. And normalizing conflict, like internal conflict is okay.

 

Mel Robbins (01:01:40):

Yeah, that's pretty cool. So you start by this inquiry and you said you teach people about the higher and lower brain. Can you tell us about that?

 

Rachel Hart (01:01:54):

Yeah, I mean, I'll say that I thought the brain was just the lump A is a lump in my head and I just lost the brain lottery. That was my assessment of my own brain. It was just like, I dunno, I just didn't get a very good one or I got one that always wants more. So obviously I'm not an expert on the brain. There are many, many parts of the brain, but I think just understanding at a very basic level, we have a lower brain that is concerned with the immediate moment.

(01:02:43):

Now, thankfully, we also have a higher brain. We have that prefrontal cortex, we have that ability, that part of ourselves that can think about tomorrow and our goals and our dreams and our future, and it can weigh pros and cons and it can get curious and ask questions. We have both parts of the brain and that's actually an amazing thing if we start to understand, Hey, how am I going to manage this slower brain? So I also talk about it like the toddler. How are you going to manage when the toddler is freaking out, the toddler watch my own children. It's like they want what they want when they want it and trying to have an intellectual conversation with them about why they shouldn't really want it and this is not how we behave. You're not going to get anywhere as opposed to, okay, I have this higher brain, I have this adult brain. What am I going to do in this situation to navigate the tantrum that is actually going to be useful? Giving in probably not so useful because then what does the toddler learn? It's like, oh, this is how I get my way. This is a good thing.

 

Mel Robbins (01:03:53):

So the higher brain is the one that you're using to tolerate the urge and to ride the wave and the lower brain is the one that is going, oh, sunset, desire boundary equals general. Yeah, I

 

Rachel Hart (01:04:08):

Want, this is what I want. You've taught me when we watch the sunset, I get a drink. This is what we do. I remembered, see, I reminded you I saw a sunset and I was like, drink lower brain is doing its job. Oh my God, that's so helpful because it's like, I mean, I think we all really understand we are not going to have an intellectual conversation with the toddler.

 

Mel Robbins (01:04:36):

No. You're basically going to go, I understand that you're upset and that feeling or desire is value. That feeling or desire is true, and that's not what we're doing right

 

Rachel Hart (01:04:51):

Now. That's not what we're doing. And I know this is hard and I'm going to be here with you and I'm going to stay by your side. You're not in trouble, you're not doing anything wrong, but I'm going to help you see yourself through to the other side. And you know what? It still will probably be a little uncomfortable, but so much less uncomfortable than why are you throwing a tantrum? You're not supposed to be having a tantrum right now.

 

Mel Robbins (01:05:16):

Is there, I know you don't tell people what to do,

 

(01:05:21):

But is there any prescribed method when a client that you're working with says, okay, I want to try to tolerate the urges. I want to try to notice when the lower and the upper brain are in conflict and rely on the upper brain to get me through this moment where I am going to go to a baseball game and I am not going to order a beer. Is there anything that you tell people to do for five days, don't have a drink, or do you talk about specific scenarios? How do you get somebody to really start practicing this? I can also see how if you've been in conflict for a long time, this could become one of those things where you think about it a lot,

 

Rachel Hart (01:06:13):

But

 

Mel Robbins (01:06:14):

You don't actually try it.

 

Rachel Hart (01:06:17):

So I think that the process always starts with we got to learn something. We got to learn about how the brain works. We got to learn some of these tools. I have people take a 30 day break from drinking, and I believe it's very different than kind of a dry January or sober October because what I'm always telling people is the 30 days I want you to focus on using the tools. Yes, we are using the tools to say no, but I want you to focus on this is me going all in on trying out all these techniques, all the techniques to manage my urges, all the techniques to talk back to my excuses. I'm going to be using these tools and I'm going to be discovering some work better than others. So I always have to be in this place of assessing and adjusting. Did that work? Did that not work? I think a lot of times what happens dry January, there can be a lot of benefits, but the point is making it 30 days and I'm like, listen, we're doing these 30 days regardless, it doesn't matter if you drink on day number two, that's good data. That means something didn't work. Let's look at what didn't work. Let's examine that and let's figure out what we need to do to prepare. Now I will tell you that's a huge mindset shift for people because

 

(01:07:38):

A lot of people, they say I'm all or nothing when it comes to drinking. I actually think they're all or nothing about commitment. It's kind of like I either was committed and I did it right and gold star or I broke my commitment and now it's like, okay, why bother? Right? I made a mistake, so now I get to have as much as I want. And it's kind of learning how to change means developing a different relationship with commitment. Okay, yesterday. Wait,

 

Mel Robbins (01:08:08):

Say that again? Learning.

Mel Robbins (01:08:28):

So what do you do with that person who says, okay, we're going to do the 30 days of not drinking and I'm going to try the tools and day eight rolls around and it's a beautiful sunset or it's a really bad day at work, or you get really, really horrible news. The last time I wasn't drinking, I got news that a friend of ours died and I was like, fuck this shit. I'm having a cocktail. So if I were doing the 30 days with you, what is the data? What can I learn from that day where I didn't keep my commitment to myself?

 

Rachel Hart (01:09:15):

So there's a process that I have people go through to actually look back and understand what was happening in the moment when you were saying, fuck this shit. What was going on? What were you saying? Fuck this shit to

 

Mel Robbins (01:09:30):

Life. Being hard, commitment, being hard, sticking to my 30 day promise, being hard. Probably if I go that's at the surface, if I go a little bit deeper, it was being really pissed off and really sad that my friend had died and wanting to just numb it out, not have to feel anything, and sticking to a commitment or changing, developing those new neural paths, that's hard work. And so I did not want to have to work hard at sticking to a promise when all I wanted to do was fucking have a drink and lay down on the couch and cry about my friend.

 

Rachel Hart (01:10:15):

All of a sudden we get to see it through the lens of like, oh, it was sadness, it was grief. It was the belief that this emotion is too big, it's too much. I can't handle it. I don't want to be with it. I shouldn't have to be with it. Which also so normal. And so it's like, yeah, of course your brain went to the thing that it's like, I know how we get out. I know the shortcut. Here's the shortcut to not have to feel our emotions, we have to drink.

 

Mel Robbins (01:10:46):

That's the lower brain. That's the lower brain going, I recognize this

 

Rachel Hart (01:10:50):

Pattern. And so all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, this wasn't me breaking my commitment and being bad. This was me in the moment of having all of this pain and sadness bubble up, not feeling like I had an alternative for how to manage it or handle it.

 

Mel Robbins (01:11:10):

How does recognizing that help you have a stronger muscle when it comes to commitment? Because you're right, because I'm sitting here going, I totally agree with you all or nothing. When it comes to commitment. You're either good or you're bad. You're either have integrity or you either stick to your promises or your fuckup and you never will. That kind of thinking. And if I take on a 30 day challenge and I fuck it up on day 12, then I fucked up the whole thing,

 

Rachel Hart (01:11:47):

Right? But remember, what did I say? The goal of the challenge was

 

Mel Robbins (01:11:52):

It's not to not drink for 30 days. No, I know.

 

Rachel Hart (01:11:55):

Isn't it to not drink? It's not drinking. We said not drinking. It's not drinking.

 

Mel Robbins (01:12:00):

The goal was to use the tools,

 

Rachel Hart (01:12:02):

Use the tools,

 

Mel Robbins (01:12:04):

But I didn't lose the tools, so I actually didn't do the challenge. See how quick I am to go bad, Mel?

 

Rachel Hart (01:12:09):

Okay, so now we don't, this happens on day two. So day three, we can't go back to using the tools.

 

Mel Robbins (01:12:16):

Yeah, we can

 

Rachel Hart (01:12:21):

And we just make progress so much faster when we're not. It's kind of like, oh, well I tried and that didn't work. Now it was bad. Now I'm going to go into shame spiral, and I'm either just going to stop trying like see nothing works and I'm just going to give up. Or I would either go into the like, okay, nothing works. Let's just f it. I just have permission to drink and eat and do all the things that I want to do. Or I would go into the place of like, okay, now we're going to make this super crazy restrictive rule. I was so bad, but deep down, I know I can't follow it at all.

 

Mel Robbins (01:12:55):

People do that on diets nonstop.

 

Rachel Hart (01:12:57):

Yeah,

 

Mel Robbins (01:12:59):

I see such a direct parallel with the way we are all around eating.

 

(01:13:08):

And I want to go back to my breakthrough just a couple minutes ago because I'm starting to see that if you take on a 30 day challenge like this to use the tools and to use the tools to not drink for 30 days as a way to learn and develop the muscle of commitment and understanding yourself better. If you screw up on day two or 12 or 28 and then you bash yourself for not having a perfect streak, the likelihood is I would then just bail on the challenge altogether because the amount of shame I would throw at myself and the conflict I would feel would be so much that I'd want to turn it off by having a drink.

 

Rachel Hart (01:14:01):

Except what if it wasn't a screw up? What if you didn't make a mistake? And I don't mean what if the decision to say yes to the drink wasn't a mistake, it wasn't a screw up.

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:14):

Well, how could it not be if I am making a commitment?

 

Rachel Hart (01:14:18):

Because maybe it's trying to give you insight into something that you are missing, like a skill that you don't have or a response that you don't have to an excuse or something that you're, you're not aware of. Maybe you don't have the awareness. So I'm using it as a boundary. And maybe it's that moment where you're like, okay, I tried and then it didn't work, and I said yes. And then when you go back and look, it's like, oh, we can't get awareness just by being perfect. I think that's the misconception.

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:53):

You're right. You and I just had another insight. The more I talk to you, the deeper we're going, here's my big insight. I don't know if we have enough time to talk about this one. I realized that I hate being told what to do. Oh yeah,

 

Rachel Hart (01:15:18):

Me too.

 

Mel Robbins (01:15:19):

Even by myself. It's like this rebel thing. You're not going to tell me what to do. Even if I said I want to do this thing, I'm not going to do that thing that I said that I would do. I'll show you. Is that a normal thing that you hear

 

Rachel Hart (01:15:40):

With people? Yes. This is a huge thing. I often talk to people when they're really struggling. It's like, okay, so what is the language that you're using to say no to the drink? And they're like, well, I'm just saying that I can't have a drink. Okay, when you tell yourself you can't have a drink, how does that make you feel? Pissed off. Yes. Yeah, because here's the thing, it's not even true that you can't have a drink. Explain that. You're like, but we said we can't. Well, I mean, you're an adult woman. We're living in a country where alcohol is accessible. You have money, arguably you have an app, maybe it will deliver. You have a car, of course you can drink. You're choosing to say, no, this is probably because my father was an English teacher. And so he is always hounding the importance of words. But there's such a big difference between when I tell myself I can't have something versus okay, I'm choosing not to, and here's why. It still might feel a little uncomfortable for me, but I'm not pissed list. I'm not

 

Mel Robbins (01:16:54):

Seeking to rebel. How do you get somebody to have a big enough why for doing this process?

 

Rachel Hart (01:17:10):

Well, what do you mean when you say a big enough? Why?

Rachel Hart (01:17:59):

But what's the thing you're worried that you can't do

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:04):

Stick to not drinking for 30 days, even though I've done it before?

 

Rachel Hart (01:18:08):

And even though I told you you didn't have to do it, that was not the point.

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:13):

Yeah.

 

Rachel Hart (01:18:17):

Well, listen, I think I'm trying

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:20):

To figure out how to do this right, and I'm

 

Rachel Hart (01:18:22):

Trying to get to the right answer. I mean, just so you won't be mean to yourself. I mean, this is all you're doing, right? You're like, oh, I'm just trying to avoid being an asshole to myself.

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:29):

Yes. If you

 

Rachel Hart (01:18:30):

Just knew that you weren't going to be mean to yourself, if there wasn't the threat of, okay, when you screw up, we're going to beat you up and say all the nasty mean things. I dunno. I've never

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:45):

Tried life like that. I think I'm going to try the 30 days.

 

Rachel Hart (01:18:52):

It's like when people are like, I don't want to try

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:55):

Not, I can't handle, not today, I'm going on a beach vacation. I reserving the right to watch a sunset. But no, I am really interested in this. I am tired of the conflict within me, and I think there's peace that's accessible in this, and it is very freeing for somebody like me. And I think for a large number of you listening to go, oh, wait a minute. I don't have to choose between. I drink all the time and I don't drink at all. I can end the internal conflict that I feel and I can learn more about urges and desires and tolerating things and operate from my higher brain instead of letting my lower brain control me, and I can get myself out of this cycle of shame and management and conflict and all this shit by simply trying what you're saying for 30 days of using these tools and naming the desire and tolerating the desire and watching your excuses and going a layer deeper. And how do we get information on how to do this?

 

Rachel Hart (01:19:58):

So you can go to rachel hart.com, my website. We're

 

Mel Robbins (01:20:02):

Going to link to all this. Yep.

 

Rachel Hart (01:20:05):

Yeah, I just want to add, I will say that so much of this is just changing your relationship with yourself. If you knew that you weren't going to be mean to yourself when you weren't perfect, you'd be so much more willing to try it, right? You'd be so much more willing to say, I'm going to do this thing because I'm not going to make it mean that something's wrong with me or I'm broken, or see I really have a problem, or I knew I couldn't do it. And that's the thing that I think so often we're actually struggling with is how we talk to ourselves in the moment that we go with the lower brain as opposed to like, oh, how normal. I don't have to make it mean that I'm broken or something's wrong with me or I'm a bad person. I

 

Mel Robbins (01:20:47):

Also see for myself that I have a story that it's going to be painful.

 

(01:20:57):

And why would I, this is the story, by the way. It's probably coming from the lower brain. I have this story that it's going to be really hard. It's going to be really painful. I'm not going to have the fun. My work is already all consuming and I'm going to be missing out on something. And the fact is that I'm missing out on peace with myself and being kind to myself. It's already really hard because I ride this conflict with wave within me all the time, and I just silence that shit by having a cocktail and ending the fight, and I'm afraid of the desire and the urge and needing to tolerate that for two hours during the window that I normally fix myself a drink on the nights I'm drinking.

 

Rachel Hart (01:21:54):

I think this goes back to what you were saying about the big why.

 

(01:21:58):

I don't think it can be all about improving my physical health. Yes, there are benefits there, but it's like, what's the point of doing this work? What's the point of having a peaceful relationship with alcohol? Or what's the point of having more authority over my urges? Why am I practicing these skills? Who do I want to become? Right? So it's moving towards something that I think because anything we do, anytime we grow, anytime we build a muscle, it's going to be uncomfortable. At first, that's normal. But if it feels like W I'm just okay, so I get to be healthier. I had a client once say, when I was working with her on her compelling reasons, I had her say, I just want to be the captain of my own soul. And I was like, yeah,

 

Mel Robbins (01:22:47):

What are the compelling reasons?

 

Rachel Hart (01:22:49):

So the compelling reasons are kind of like, can you write down, can you look at different aspects of your life, whether it's your health or your emotional wellbeing or your relationships, maybe it's your career or your goals or your faith or money, time, productivity, to look at all of these areas of your life and start to ask yourself, why would it be worth it for me to change my relationship with alcohol? How would these areas of my life benefit? And I think it's kind of going a little bit beyond. I dunno. I mean, my liver would get a break and maybe I wouldn't wake up regretful.

 

Mel Robbins (01:23:27):

My hot flashes wouldn't be so bad. I love the captain of the soul that really spoke to me because I am somebody who is uber intentional and uber in control and have done so much work on myself and a leader and as a mom and as a wife, and as a human, and improving my relationship with myself. And I feel like the one area where I have this friction between old and new is this conflict I feel around whether or not I'm going to have a cocktail. And you have been so profoundly helpful because I have realized a couple very liberating things, and I realize I'm about to say something very controversial, particularly for those of you who are sober. But I really profoundly believe I do not have an issue with alcohol after talking with you. I really do. I believe I have a major issue with the desire that's driven by a boundary between work and relaxing and turning my brain off, and the desire to join in and belong with others in moments of celebration and being able to do a change and neuro pathway and habit exercise where I examine this lovingly through these deeper desires.

 

(01:25:01):

They're all tied up with alcohol for some dumb reason. I think it would give me more of a sense that I'm driving the ship in all areas of my life, because this is kind of the one where I feel like, why can't I? What the fuck is this about? And I've been focused on the alcohol and the black or white, not the much richer and deeper opportunity of knowing myself in the way that you are helping people around the world who come to you and work with you around their urges and their relationship to their desires and alcohol specifically. So thank you.

 

Rachel Hart (01:25:44):

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

 

Mel Robbins (01:25:46):

Of course. And thank you for being here. Thank you so much. I could feel your arm around me as we were having this conversation. And now I want to put my arm around you. I want to make sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life yourself. However you define that, whatever that means for you. And what that means for me is I am going to try this 30 day thing. So thank you for being here and helping me find the courage to take a look at this because it's a hell of a lot easier to face your stuff and change together. Alright, I'll talk to you in a few days. Okay? Squeeze into this. Oh, wow. Wow. This is like tool, city man, tool city, okay. Oh shit. Call Jesus. My kids always call while we're having a podcast. Goodbye. Okay. Mama's ought to talk about drink. That's a boundary. Okay, I'm still on the clock.

 

Rachel Hart (01:26:49):

Excuse me. Lemme take a step.

 

Mel Robbins (01:26:51):

So is that straight vodka in that thing that you just had a drink on?

 

Rachel Hart (01:26:54):

Oh yeah, this is, yeah, sure.

 

Mel Robbins (01:26:59):

Oh, and one more thing, and no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it. Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.