Episode: 65

FBI-Trained Expert Explains How to Read Body Language

with Janine Driver

Learn to spot a liar simply by watching their hands.

Know why you should never shrug your shoulders if you want to be convincing.

Understand why you should never sit directly across from someone on a first date.

Learn these and more.

Trained by the FBI, CIA, Janine Driver is one of the world’s top hostage negotiators. She is teaching you everything she knows about body language.

This is an incredibly interesting, entertaining, and surprising take on how to build confidence and be smarter about the subconscious signals that other people are sending you all day long.

Listen on:

Words plant the seeds of reality—so speak with confidence, clarity, and intention.

Janine Driver

Featured Clips

Transcript

Mel Robbins (00:00:03):

I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago. She has spent over two decades decoding body language trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. This is also an episode about empowerment. There are simple things that you can learn to do to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. We're going to go true crime, murderers and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago who is one of the world's leading experts in decoding body language. So for all you true crime junkies out there, you better buckle up because you're about to get a masterclass from a woman who's not only hilarious.

(00:01:03):

She's also so incredibly smart. She has spent over two decades decoding body language trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. She can tell you what a shoulder shrug or a lip lock or a chin grab means. She can tell you how to decode the body language of somebody that you're dating, of the person you're working for. She can even help you understand the signaling that your kids are giving you that they don't mean to give you when they're hiding information. But this goes way beyond decoding lies and deception. This is also an episode about empowerment because there are simple things that you can learn to do in meetings, in interviews, on dates with your family to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. According to Janine, you have untapped potential that is hiding right in plain sight. And today she's going to pull back the curtain and she's going to show you the secrets to increase your influence and spot deception when it rises around you. Are you ready? We're going to go true crime, murderers and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. Let's get Janine on.

Janine Driver (00:02:31):

Hi, Mel.

Mel Robbins (00:02:32):

I am so proud of you. You look so fabulous and yellow and I can't wait to just shout you and your wisdom from the rooftops.

Janine Driver (00:02:43):

Thank you.

Mel Robbins (00:02:44):

And so we're going to start at the beginning since most people don't have the, most people have seen you on tv, people are fans of true crime, these captivating mind blowing murder cases that really just our attention. And you are the expert that is on speed dial for every major network to analyze body language. And so while people know you based on your expertise and wisdom that you've shared on some of these landmark cases, they don't really know your background. So can you explain how on earth did you get into the work that you do? You've been analyzing murderers for the FBI, the CIA for decades. How did you get into this work?

Janine Driver (00:03:34):

When I was at six years old, no. If we really do go back to six, quite frankly, at six, I was molested by a next door neighbor. And there's three types of people that are good at reading people. Kids who are abused physically, emotionally, verbally. They need to know when dad comes home and he puts his hat on a weird way or cracks open the beer or mom gets the vodka, whatever it is, that tonight's not going to be a good night. So for me, it happened to be a next door neighbor. And by the grace of God, my mother believed me. Now, I believe today as a swearing Christian, I believe everything happens for my greater good. So at 16, a guy tried to kidnap me. I was going to Mr. Donuts. I worked at a Mr. Donut place. Now a Dunking Donuts. I'm from Boston like you.

(00:04:13):

And I picked up my check. I was on my bike. It was a rainy morning. It was five 30 in the morning, 1986 ET came out that year. You may remember little Adam Walsh went missing that year. And in my little 16-year-old brain, I just turned 16. I was thinking, when this guy tried to kidnap me with his car, he's going to get me. I became like Liam Neeson in a future movie, right? He will get you. And I swear, having that trauma when I was six saved me at 16 and my little brain immediately was draining. He said, Hey kid, why don't we put your bike in the trunk of my car and I'll give you a ride home? And that Malcolm Gavin Becker will call it the gift of fear. The gift of fear just was like, I knew I couldn't drive 2.8 miles home.

(00:04:59):

He's just going to hit me with his car. He doesn't care if I'm dead. He's going to put my broken bones in the car and do whatever he's going to do to me. But I saw BayBank one block away and I'm like, if I can get to BayBank, maybe my parents will have the closure. Unlike Adam Walsh's family who were looking for him, they didn't know who took him outside of a Sears parking lot. I was like, because in my little 16-year-old brain, because, well, the trauma at six six was it just began to change how I thought of the world. And I said, if I can get to BayBank, maybe there'll be a camera. And I got there and by what I call the grace of God, the fence behind BayBank had been ripped open, cut open. It was a metal fence. It looked 20 feet, but it was probably like eight feet. And I rode my, he followed me, lo and behold, right to the bank, Mel and you at home listening. And I drove through the hole down a six foot embankment into another shopping plaza called 9 1 1. My parents are sound asleep. It's five 30 in the morning. A police officer drives me home. My parents have no idea I've left the house.

Mel Robbins (00:05:59):

Oh my God.

Janine Driver (00:06:02):

That's where it began. Because when I went into college, I majored in English communications because I'm fascinated about what makes human beings tick. And then I ended up getting a job with a TF, the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco and Firearms. I never heard of them. They're originally Elliot Ness from the tax days. We used to be part of Treasury now with the Justice Department, loved human behavior, hot a spot if someone's lying. And I worked for a TF for 17 years, retired at 38 when I got a half a million dollar book deal with Random House to write a book. You say more than you think. And the reason I got that is I watched a Dan Kennedy marketing video one night and he was talking to restaurant people and he goes, Hey, you need to say you make the best meatballs. You have the best Italian food.

(00:06:48):

And if someone says, no, I make the best meatball, Mel Robbins, now we got to cook off and we've got media there. You and I love our media and inspiring people to look at their world in a different way with what we know. And I was like, oh, what am I an expert at? And today they call it manifesting. And so I was like, what am I an expert at? What do I need to claim it? What is it? And I went to work the next day at a TF in dc I'm from Boston originally and lived all over the country, Seattle, Georgia, West Virginia, and worked at the World Trade Center in New York City. And I went to work. Ben Peters always gets a bagel with me. He comes in, I go, Ben, shut the door. What's going on? I got to know how to tell you this, but I'm leaving a TF.

(00:07:24):

I'm a New York Times bestselling author. I go on TV shows all the time. I am quoted in magazines and books. I'm the go-to body language detecting deception expert for the media. He goes, when did this happen? I go, 9:35 PM last night. Two weeks later, I was on Fox News with Tony Snow who later became the press secretary for George W. Bush. And then I put that on a website, lion Tamer, LYIN, because I could tell if you have Lion lion tamer.com. Four months later, the Today Show sees it. There were three body language experts that had websites. Then they dug my vibe or whatever, my Boston Moxie, I call it Mo. And I've been on the Today Show, I don't know over a hundred times, Dr. Oz, Rachel Ray, the rest, Rachel Ray sidebar really quick. I'm like, what show do I want to get on next? I'm like, oh, this Rachel Ray chick, she's kind of taken off.

(00:08:17):

This is back in the day 20 years ago. And I wrote to every single story they had coming up like, Hey, are you meeting your future? We'd like to talk to you. Do you think your kids smoke? And I'm like, I'm the human lie detector. They call me the lion tamer because I could tell if you're lying. And I pitched them. See, my degree in college was English communications and I had a concentration in public relations, and they taught me how to write press release. People say, who's your press agent? I go North, Adam State College in the Berkshires now called Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. They're my PR agent. And I wrote to 12, my son, who's now 17 and six foot one was a baby. And I wrote to every single pitch, every single upcoming show. And then that was a Wednesday, Mel and you at home on Friday, my phone rang Janine Driver, this is Maggie Barnes, the Rachel Ray show.

(00:09:08):

And I said, swear to god, Maggie, I've been expecting your phone call. When on that show, a flirting show, a woman who was very successful, educated, smart, wealthy, had her own place, couldn't get a second date. They sent me in like Ashton Kucher. I spied on her body language. Mel Robinson. I was going to say Rachel Ray surprises the girl, her name's Nicole, now married and still a friend of mine surprises Nicole and brings out her favorite date. But the producers messed up. They didn't have a seat for him. So Rachel Ray gave her seat to him. She sat on my lap. I had red spiky hair, like the heat miser. And a guy is turning the channel who is a literary agent. Dan Lazar says, why is Rachel Ray sitting on that redheaded lady's lap? What is this all about? I got a book deal. They went into a bidding war and ultimately Random House bought my first book, you him when you think. So that's how I got to where I am and the rest of his history. Now, my job is to inspire people that you're listening to your podcast to look at their world in a different way. Break any limited beliefs. I believe in manifesting because I am living proof that it works. You plant, Hey Mal, you plant pumpkin seeds. What does it grow?

Mel Robbins (00:10:23):

Pumpkins.

Janine Driver (00:10:24):

You plant tomato seeds. What does it grow?

Mel Robbins (00:10:26):

Tomatoes?

Janine Driver (00:10:28):

Yeah. People get what they grow. They get what they plant. You grow what you plant. So I'm very positive. I teach something called statement analysis. I never say, don't run in the street. Don't touch that. I say what I want, not what I don't want. I say, Hey, out of the kitchen, everyone, stay in the living room. Don't touch that. Don't touch that. I say, hands off, we need to, I believe, flip the script and plant positive seeds if you want to manifest. Goodness. So that's who I am. That's my background.

Mel Robbins (00:10:56):

Well, Janine, couple, my mind is still processing. So I want to go back and ask you, you said there are three types of people who learn to read body language. What are they?

Janine Driver (00:11:13):

People who are abused, by the way, that was called an open loop. An open loop is when you give a little bit of information and not the rest, and it makes people riveted and it creates an open loop in their head. We still wonder if Chandler and Monica are still married in this pretend world of friends. Did Rachel and Ross ever get married? Right? These open loops. So I love that you brought me back to close this loop for people. One is kids who are abused in some type of way. Two people like the Secret Service, who are trained every single day to look for the anomalies, to look for what doesn't fit. You would think school teachers and therapists and judges would be good at detecting deception, and they are not.

Mel Robbins (00:11:52):

Why?

Janine Driver (00:11:54):

They're not trained every day what to look for. They don't know. I'll give you a quick sidebar here. There's a hand gesture that turns agreement to disagreement, and no one's ever told us what it is, Mel. And it's

Mel Robbins (00:12:04):

What is it?

Janine Driver (00:12:04):

It's the easiest thing. So I say to you, you go, Hey, Janine, next time I'm in DC I'd love to, let's go to dinner. I don't drink, but maybe you say, let's get iced tea. And I go, okay, Mel, that sounds great. And I nod my head yes, I'm saying yes. But I take my hand and I touch the back of my head at the same time and I go, yeah, that sounds great, Mel. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, let's get together. Or that's what men tend to do. Women will go to the nape of our neck and we lift our hair up. For those of you who are listening and maybe not seeing us right now,

Janine Driver (00:12:28):

And when someone says yes, and they shake their head yes, but they touch their head at the same time, that's called a high level pacifier that's indicating there's something they're uncertain about. So maybe when you say, Hey, when I come to town, Janine, let's go out for steak. And I go, okay, yeah, that sounds good, but I just became a vegan. Or I do intermittent fasting and I don't eat three days a week. Now it's just telling you my definite yes, actually has a nonverbal. Maybe there's a problem. So I say, it's like you opened a file cabinet in a file of something. I'm not telling you this top secret file. And all we need to do is say, maybe I'm wrong here. It seems to me there's something you're uncertain about. Well, I just became vegan, Mel, can we get something vegan?

Mel Robbins (00:13:20):

Wow,

Janine Driver (00:13:22):

No one taught us this. This is why judges and teachers and therapists don't know, because no one's teaching us. We're not teaching this emotional intelligence aspect in schools, sadly. And so one of my big things is I speak to schools for free. I do zoom calls for schools, middle schools, and high schools and colleges for free, because I want human beings to know what I know so we can, I'm all about kindness and love and positivity. So the third group, people are abused, kids are abused, people are trained. What to look for the secret service all day long? What's the anomaly? And the third group is people who have had a left brain stroke and the right brain takes over. So people have left brain stroke, the right brain takes over, which is the nonverbals and spawning these little teeny movements that people make.

Mel Robbins (00:14:10):

Wow.

Janine Driver (00:14:11):

But you can train yourself to be better on it. I say you can't unsee it. I'm hear it unexperience it. So when we're talking, Mel and I, if I share something with you, I want you to try it on. If you're watching, you just saw Mel did it. So everyone, wherever you are in your car at the gym, just say, yeah, that sounds really good, Janine. I'd love to get together and pat your head, pat the back of your head

Mel Robbins (00:14:31):

Having literally going, I'm lying to you. I really don't want to, as I'm petting my hair or I'm touching my neck. I bet you see this a lot on first dates where somebody's trying to get it to a second date and they're like, I think we should do this again. And you probably see people nodding going, yeah, that'd be great. And then they go and touch their neck. And that means, yeah, not really.

Janine Driver (00:14:50):

Well, here's the deal. I'm recently single, got divorced a couple of years ago by the grace of God, but we get along great. When I see a guy doing that on a date, I immediately think to myself, Janine, driver, stop talking. I talk nonstop. And my goal for 2023 going beyond is to be interested more than being interesting. And I find myself often sharing this cool stuff that I know and not being interested. So for the talkers or the extrover, I'm an extrovert introvert. But if you're listening, Dr. Phil would say, how's that working out for you? Right? So I want to be interested more than interesting. So when I see pacifying gestures like this high level, the higher the pacify, the more stress anxiety. Brittany Spears lied. Brittany Spears said that Matt Lauer, he's a real peach, but Matt Lauer said, you're pregnant and divorcing. That's what the rag mags say.

(00:15:47):

She said, none of that's true. And rubbed her leg. Two weeks later, she filed for a divorce from her husband at the time, Kevin Federline. So this pacifying happens at all parts of our body, but the higher the pacifier, the more stress and anxiety why our brain is in here. These high level face pacifiers are indicating stress. Think about people rubbing their eyes. So right now, if everyone just touches your eye and your boss says to you or your boyfriend, Hey, let's go to Aruba instead of going skiing this year. And you go, okay, not a problem. Or your boss says, Hey, can you get this done by Monday? And it's Friday at five o'clock, right? And you go, okay, boss, not a problem. And you touch the part of your eye. Babies when they're crying, Mel, you're a mom. I'm a mom. Maybe you at home or a mom or you're once a kid.

(00:16:31):

For sure babies, just before they fall asleep, they rub their eyes. That's right, they do. When we touch our eyes, there is a nerve behind our eye. You could Google it. I show it in my class. An FMRI study was done. When you touch your eye, it then affects this nerve that tickles our brain and dumps dopamine in our body. And dopamine has us fall asleep. So when you wake up in the morning, the last thing you should do is rub your eyes, because I know you're not a snooze person, Mel, you don't hit that snooze button. Go, go, go. Right? And you talk about what happens when you go back into you are even more tired and grumpy and all your amazing information you share with us in the world. So don't rub your eye. The better thing is to throw cold water on your face.

(00:17:16):

You could literally dunk your face in cold water. It's called the scuba diving effect, and it will stimulate you. If you're in a meeting or on a date and someone starts touching their eye, it's likely stress has increased. By the way Putin even does this. So Putin, this master manipulator people sing, his praise is about how great he is at not being spotted. When he is deceptive or stressed, he'll touch his eyes as well under high stress. So in a meeting, it says to me, subconsciously, it connects to us as a baby. We don't realize we're touching our eye, but your brain is getting stressed in your body, that you're dumping dopamine to say, it's okay, it's okay. President Obama, if you're on the other side and you're like Trump, right? You see world leaders. You see corporate titans when they do this. I show a video of the president of Mexico, and Obama was president here. The president of Mexico said, president Obama in the United States can help us. I believe they can help us curb the cartel problem in our country. And when he says it, he does a bunch of body language that indicates uncertainty and then touches his inner eye.

Mel Robbins (00:18:20):

Wow.

Janine Driver (00:18:21):

And I show that to my keynote presentations and I say, how confident is he that Obama and the United States can help? And they burst out laughing.

Mel Robbins (00:18:28):

So you've spent decades studying murderers, liars, world leaders, becoming an expert at decoding this hidden language. What do we need to know in our everyday lives? What are the basics that you want everybody to be equipped with so that we can spot when people are lying so that we can spot these signals that somebody is giving to us and be more empowered in life? Where do we even begin? Janine,

Janine Driver (00:19:00):

That's a great question, Mel. First I would start with us before decoding others, right? So emotional intelligence is self-awareness, social awareness, self adaptation, motivating others to be the best version of themselves. So let's start with self-awareness,

Mel Robbins (00:19:13):

Okay? Okay.

Janine Driver (00:19:15):

When it comes to ourselves, what is a lot's happening? I call it a behavioral fingerprint. What's your behavioral fingerprint? What's your movement DNA look

Mel Robbins (00:19:24):

Like? I have no idea.

Janine Driver (00:19:26):

Well, you're so dynamite. Are you kidding? Listen, you are like making a bagel in your kitchen or whatever, and then you say some soundbite, it goes, millions of people are watching it and lives are being changed because of it. Your body image is great. You're very authentic. And here's why I love trees. And if you at home can imagine a tree, there's the four stages of how we communicate. And if you think of a tree, Mel and you at home is we're going to start with the roots of the tree. The roots of the tree is what we believe. I spoke at Georgetown University and someone said, A woman at the end of my presentation, excuse me, I have a group interview tomorrow, five people are interviewing me. Janine, is there a question you would ask at the end of the interview? And I said, yes. I would ask to each of them, what do you consider the ideal candidate to look like? And how do I measure up to your expectation of the ideal candidate? And the woman, had you all been there, you would've seen her and heard her say, oh, I could never ask that. I would look desperate and you would've heard me respond. You're right. You would look desperate. I would look confident.

Mel Robbins (00:20:32):

Is that because of the roots?

Janine Driver (00:20:34):

It's because of the roots of the tree. It's what I believe, because I really want to know that question. A lot of us, for the women who are listening, a lot of us women, we really do ourselves a huge disservice. The men go in and men say, excuse me, Mel, I just found out my mother's coming to town 4th of July, I'm taking four days off. Confident, solid body language. Women, we ask the same question that same day. We will often, many of us come in shoulder shrugging and we put our shoulders up to her ears. Hey boss, I just found out shoulder shrugged that my mother's coming to town. Shoulder shrugged. I didn't know she was coming. Could I take the 4th of July off? And your boss says yes to Bob and no to Jane. Jane, ask me again in June. And we walk away and say, this is what happens.

(00:21:17):

See, it's a double standard. Now, I'm not saying there's not a double standard with men and women because there is, but there are some areas where we have to take responsibility for the results we're getting. And here's the right reason. When we shoulder shrugged, we're going to talk about this hopefully in a bit, but a shoulder shrug means uncertainty, and it's also connected to deception, which we'll talk about hopefully in a minute. But a shoulder shrug means uncertainty. And we have mirror neurons. You yawn, mal or Donna or Jesse or Amy or Andrea, whoever's listening, you yawn. I yawn. Science mal, I know you love science. I know you love what's happening in the brain and how the brain and the body are talking to one or one another because they are. So when I come in uncertain, how am I making my boss feel Mel?

Mel Robbins (00:22:03):

Uncertain. And they probably don't even realize it. I've been watching a bunch of your TED talks and you did this exercise with the audience, and we can do it with everybody listening where simply take a second and say the words, can I have the 4th of July off while your shoulders are hiked up towards your ears and you'll realize your entire body and energy is questioning the words that are coming out of your mouth. It's impossible. Janine, you're absolutely right. I've never even thought about it. Impossible to even feel confident.

Mel Robbins (00:22:35):

If you're talking with your shoulders up at your ears, you're shrugging them up

Janine Driver (00:22:41):

When you're planting pumpkin seeds and expecting tomatoes to grow.

Mel Robbins (00:22:46):

It's true.

Janine Driver (00:22:47):

It begins with the roots though it's not our fault. It's not your fault because no one is teaching us this, okay? We just want to be liked. We don't want to be inconveniencing people. We don't know if we're bothering 'em. But if you look at many of the men are in confident alpha women, they just come in unapologetically. That's the roots of the tree. What is it that you're planting? Because what you're planting is going to grow whatever the seed is connected to. So get to those roots of the tree. What do you believe?

Mel Robbins (00:23:12):

What's the second part? The trunk. The trunk, okay, what's the second part? The

Janine Driver (00:23:15):

Trunk of the tree is body language. Now this is interesting because after body language comes, the branches, the branches mal and you at home, the branches are thought. So this means body language comes before thought. And here's the deal. It comes up to five seconds before thought. Mel, do you think five seconds is a good advantage for the military? Would five seconds matter

Mel Robbins (00:23:41):

It's life or death? I would think.

Janine Driver (00:23:43):

Do you think five seconds matter with an athlete

Mel Robbins (00:23:46):

If it's winning or losing?

Janine Driver (00:23:48):

Can five seconds with you with your ten second rule? Can five seconds make a difference? Of course. Can I jump out of

Mel Robbins (00:23:53):

Bed? Yes. At five seconds? Yes.

Janine Driver (00:23:57):

With understanding what I'm talking about now. First is the intention, the roots of the tree, then body language and then thought. This means you get a five second advantage to know how someone else feels before their brain knows how they feel. This is why when I say, Hey, Mel, I can't come and join you for Thanksgiving this year. And you go, not a problem, Janine, and your lips disappear. Everyone pull your lips in and just say, not a problem. I don't mind. Not a problem. And pull your lips in, okay?

Mel Robbins (00:24:28):

Make them disappear.

Janine Driver (00:24:29):

Make them disappear. And so mal goes, not a problem, Janine. I say, when we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear. Or a lip roll is emotional control.

Mel Robbins (00:24:39):

What's a lip roll look like?

Janine Driver (00:24:40):

That's this

Mel Robbins (00:24:42):

Lips

Janine Driver (00:24:43):

Rolling those lips in.

Mel Robbins (00:24:45):

Okay,

Janine Driver (00:24:46):

So Mel says, not a problem. I now have a five second advantage. I know there is a problem because Mel's lips disappeared, and when we don't like what we see are here, our lips disappear. So I know there is a problem. I know my dad's a hothead. When I see my dad's lips disappear, I've got five seconds to get my kids in the truck and get the heck out of Maine and my dad's cottage before my kids see the angry dad that I grew up with because they don't believe he exists, right? So I have a five second of day, let's to go. We got to go, go, go. Move on out. It's like the indie 500, fixing the tires really quick. So I might stick around and say, Mel, maybe I'm wrong here. It seems that you're disappointed or there's something you're not saying.

(00:25:29):

Five seconds later, I'm going to tell you what that person's going to say. Yeah, I am mad because last year you were supposed to come and you backed out three days before then before you have a five second head start. If you can decode body language because the body language people are showing you, their brain doesn't realize how they feel just yet. Body language shows up before the branches before that thought. And the last one are the leaves. The leaves of the tree. Mal are the words and words matter because words plant the next seed. The words matter what falls off the tree is planting that next seed. I recently heard on TikTok, and by the way, my friend said, you don't say you saw it on TikTok. You say you read it in the New York Times recently. So I told my sons, my three sons. I go, I recently read in the New York Times and Jackie, he's my wise guy, the little one. He goes, yeah, I heard Terry Moore tell you when you see something on TikTok to say you read it in the New York Times. So what you're about to tell us, did you really see it on TikTok mom? I'm like, damn you Jackie and your wiseness. So here's what I heard on TikTok, and maybe your listeners have heard it, and maybe you've said it too. Have you talked about the bees and the flies?

Mel Robbins (00:26:38):

No.

Janine Driver (00:26:40):

So the bees are not flying around trying to convince the flies that honey tastes better than shit. So I'm going to repeat that. The bees are not wasting time convincing flies that honey tastes better than shit. I want a tribe of bees. I still want to inspire and influence the world, but only for the flies who are interested in tasting the honey. I recently broke up with a guy that I was dating named Jimmy. He's amazing. I'm five nine, I'm thick. He's six six. He's an animal, right? It's like this giant, it's the first time I ever felt small. I finally started eating carbs again, dating Jimmy. I'm like, I can date carbs. I'm dating this giant. And I had to break up with him because of what my mother would call his stinking thinking. He is planting these seeds of negativity. He's like, people are going to take advantage of, you're going to mistake your kindness for weakness.

(00:27:42):

He's planting the wrong seeds for me. I want to a bee. I don't want to fly. So he's a fly. So someone said to me last night, so you've been single for two years and you're on these dating apps. What's going on? How come you're still single? I said, because I'm looking for bees. I'm looking for bees or flies that want to hang out with bees. That's what I'm looking for. So it goes back to the power of our words is creating what's coming next, right? What are you planting? What are you planting? Get out of your stinking thinking. You have 17 seconds to stop complaining and research says after 17 seconds, you have to bring yourself esteem back up. You have to say at least five positive things about yourself. And after 17 seconds, if you add on a negative thing, another negative thing, you create momentum. And when you create momentum, then it's hard to stop the negativity. And you may talk about the, so excuse me if you do.

Mel Robbins (00:28:34):

No, I'm just fascinated listening to everything that you're saying. I want though to focus on how we can become better at spotting when somebody's lying to us at spotting. Because I think that there's a lot of, in the work that you and I do, you often find somebody after the heartbreak, after the cheating, after somebody has lied to you. And what I would love for you to help us understand is how can we get better at spotting the signs that based on decades of research, based on your expertise, the signs aren't lying. We can lie to ourselves and we can make excuses for the way people are treating us. And we do all the time. And you always say, stop listening to what people are saying and start looking at how they're treating you because that's the truth about how they feel about you. But the signs don't lie. And half the time, people shrugging their shoulders or folding in their lips or kind of sending these body language signals, they don't even realize they're doing it because the signs don't lie. And so what are the big ones that we

Janine Driver (00:29:45):

Have to

Mel Robbins (00:29:45):

Be aware of? The big, yeah.

Janine Driver (00:29:46):

So if I can just put a cap on that last part of understanding yourself. There are body language moves you can do to be seen as confident and powerful. One is I'm doing it now. If you're seeing me, it's called steeping. And you'd see Mr. Burns do this. It's fingertips to fingertips making like a church steeple. When we steeple people, we intimidate people. The higher the steeple, the more intimidation. So it's a sign of confidence. So a nice low steeple, especially if you're a woman in a meeting and men are overtalking you, instead of saying, let me finish with a palm down gesture, like you're the police on a raid and telling people to get on the ground. If you just lean back and steeple someone else at the table will quiet down the people who are interrupting you. So when we steeple people, we intimidate people. It's a sign of confidence. Another person,

Mel Robbins (00:30:29):

Lemme ask you a question about

Janine Driver (00:30:30):

That.

Mel Robbins (00:30:31):

So just so everybody listening gets this, because I think this is critical. You're in a meeting at work or you're at a family dinner or you're out with a bunch of girlfriends or whatever, and people are talking over you. You are saying that instead of raising your hand or stop talking over me or continuing to talk, if you lean back, you put your fingertips together and make like a church steeple or a triangle and you lean back in your chair and then you stare at the person who is talking over you or what do you do?

Janine Driver (00:31:05):

Well, you could either stop looking at them or look at their forehead and you would think that they don't feel it. But when someone's being disrespectful, if you look at their forehead, it can change it. I don't want to get into some advanced stuff, but I'll tell you this. When we talk to people, I talk out of my right eye into your left eye opposite me, right? So I'm talking primarily out of my right eye. All human beings doesn't matter if your right or your lefty, we talk out of our right eye into your left eye. If I want to intimidate you because I don't like your behavior or the inappropriate things you're saying, my right eye will go diagonal to your right eye. You can do this to a waitress and they come to take your order and you just focus your right eye to their right eye.

(00:31:48):

So you're going to go diagonal and they'll start to pacify. You'll see them fix their hair, touch their throat because it's this little hidden power that we have. So you can look at someone's forehead. You can look out of your predominant right eye here as you're talking to someone's left eye diagonal crossing, and then that steeple or just stop looking at them altogether and stop giving them your attention. And the steeping, someone else at the table, whether it's professional or personal, will say, Hey, Mike. Hey Jeff. Hey Susan. Stop interrupting her. Let her finish. I like to say, do you want to be writer or do you want to be effective? In the old days, I would be like mouthy and I'd be like, attitudey. But I would always leave. I was always the bad guy walking out of the meeting and I got sick of being the bad guy.

(00:32:34):

And I'm like, okay, I need to be more effective here. My mother taught me steeping. She was a, she's since passed, and I had a boss that used to point and she'd be like...

Janine Driver (00:32:43):

Richard, my office. Now Marjorie. She'd walk into this pool of people at desks and they became cartoon figures. Their eyes popped out of their head and they looked full of fear. And I called my mother. I was 25. I was in the World Trade Center in New York, and I go, mom, my boss does this aggressive thing. If she does it to me, I'm mouthy. I'm going to lose my cool job with a TF. My mother was a nurse for elderly homeless people, Mel in Boston, committee to and Elderly Homelessness, and at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, I went home five foot two, I'm five nine, she's subpoena. She goes, I want you to do this.

(00:33:16):

This is before I knew it was called steeping and Fingertips to fingertips. And I go, what's that called? She goes, I have no idea. I just know when a doctor says my mom was Lorraine, Lorraine, can I talk to you about the last patient? She goes, I always feel like I'm in trouble. So lo and behold, Colleen, my boss at the World Trade Center did it to me. Two months later, Janine, my office, she pointed at me, was aggressive. I pulled out mom's move, which I now know is called steeping. Oprah Winfrey does it all the time. I walked casually behind Colleen with my steeple when I went into her office. Had you been there, you would've heard her say, do you know why I called you in my office? And with my steeple in hand, I responded The way mom told me, I said, I have a pretty good idea, Colleen.

(00:33:53):

She goes, why? I go, I'm exceeding all your expectations, as you might imagine. She's like, what? I'll do that at the end of the year in an evaluation. I got to spread it out. I love attention from my boss still steeping every now and then. Call me in and I'll come skipping in. I come in early, I stay late. I know I'm exceeding your expectations. Isn't that why you called me in? She didn't know what to do. I worked for her for three and a half years. She never called me in her office again. The reason she had called me in that day was to bully me. And when I said, why did you call me in? She said, oh, I just want to see how you're enjoying living in New York City. She was a bully boss. So if you have bully bosses and bully people in your life, pull out that steeple because when you steeple people, you have power over people.

Mel Robbins (00:34:34):

Does it work with a spouse or somebody? Or bullying

Janine Driver (00:34:37):

Does. And kids, yeah, they feel like they're in trouble. So if you want to make them feel like they're in trouble and that you're not going to be pushed around easily, a hundred percent steeple.

Mel Robbins (00:34:44):

Steeple. I love it. It's almost like a little shield that you're creating. It's like you can become your own superhero superpower. When you steeple. It's like wonder twins unite and they used to hit their fists. You're now creating a force field. You are in charge when you put the steeple up. I absolutely love that.

Janine Driver (00:35:04):

I love that. Do you know Desiree Gruber? Have you ever met her?

Mel Robbins (00:35:08):

No.

Janine Driver (00:35:08):

So she's in New York City. She came up with the Idea Marketing Company of the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show back in the day. And by the way, Victoria's Secret initially didn't want it. And then when they had it, it blew out the internet. It was the first time the internet crashed was the Victoria's Secret fashion show. And Victoria's Secret wasn't happy at first, and then the publicity exploded. Victoria's Secret fashion show with the wings and the lingerie. Well, she once sent me a picture. She's a client and she sent me a picture of her steeping in the Oval Office in the White House because she said she was nervous with all those heavy hitters. So she brought her steeple out in the Oval Office, Nancy Pelosi, all these people were there.

Mel Robbins (00:35:46):

That's pretty cool.

Janine Driver (00:35:47):

And so when you're nervous steeple, you can fake it there. And the other move I wanted to say is a chin grab. Indra Newi is the former CEO of PepsiCo. I love Indra Newi. Google her if everyone doesn't know who she is. Indian. She was raised in India. She has a sister. Her mother used to every night at the dinner table, have her and her sister debate. You're running for president of the United States. You're running for Prime Minister of Australia. And they would debate. She grows up, becomes a female CEO of Pepsi. Wow,

Mel Robbins (00:36:12):

When? Maybe that's what I did wrong. I've just been going get your elbows off the table

Janine Driver (00:36:16):

To your kids. So when she does an interview, look at Indra Nui. She grabs her chin. And I say, when we grab our chin, we're about to win. Take a picture of yourself. How do you normally sit? And now take a picture of yourself. We're holding your chin. Look how much more intelligent we look. We look like we have a master's degree. We look like we have it all figured

Mel Robbins (00:36:32):

Out. I literally look like I just won the Pulitzer Prize. See here, I figured I was joining. I was holding my chin. It's very pointy. I don't really like it, so I'm kind of hiding it. But it does look

Janine Driver (00:36:43):

Very, what can I tell you about your pointy chin means?

Mel Robbins (00:36:46):

Yeah. What does my pointy

Janine Driver (00:36:47):

Chin? It's like a shovel and a pointy chin. You can take it, you can something on the chin and a pointy chin is like a shovel. And that you will fight for people that you will fight. You'll have that determination Is that chin right there? So wow.

Mel Robbins (00:37:02):

So I have to just tell you a quick story. When my husband was in the restaurant business, we couldn't go out to another restaurant and actually have a nice date because the man would be so preoccupied. Oh, there's 40 seats, there's this many waiter. He was just in the language of running a restaurant. So he wasn't,

Janine Driver (00:37:26):

I can reverse engineer what he does with his body language based on you telling me that. Would you want me to tell you what he does with his body language?

Mel Robbins (00:37:32):

Yeah, but what I was going to say is can you actually be with other people and not be decoding them?

Janine Driver (00:37:38):

Like that movie with Jim Carrey becomes God and he turns it into sticky notes and then he turns it into an email system. Some things I can't unsee, but I have a DD, so sometimes I'm daydreaming and not paying attention. So if you prime me in advance to decode whoever you're with, then I'll see it all. Otherwise, I'm kind of not really paying. I can't unsee what we're about to talk about detecting deception. I can't unsee the detecting deception. Hotspots I'm going to share with you.

(00:38:07):

I can't unno them, so we'll go over those in a second. But I want to reverse engineer what your husband does. And I've never met him. I don't know him. I know about one business was doing well, he opened up another one and didn't do so well. And another one. And then I know your story about this rocket ship. So I wanted you to do a test and you at home, anyone who pays attention to all the details like Mel's husband, all these little teeny details, I want you to watch how they drink their water tonight at dinner or tomorrow at breakfast or today at lunch, whatever time you're listening to this...

Janine Driver (00:38:37):

Amazing Mel Robbins podcast, and I am going to tell you what they're going to do with their water. These detail oriented people, and by the way, I am not one of them is when they drink their water, Mel, I want you to notice this with your husband. What's his first name?

Mel Robbins (00:38:50):

Chris.

Janine Driver (00:38:51):

Chris. All right. He's going to drink his water. When he puts the glass or the bottle on the table, he's going to watch it until it hits the table. When he goes to pick up the bottle, he's going to look at the bottle, keep looking at it. As he grasps the bottle, he's going to keep looking at it, grasp the bottle. People like me who are not detail oriented, what I do is I see the table, I look down with the table list, I grab my bottle of water, but I'm still looking at you. So I look just to see, oh yeah, my water still there. I look at the water and then I look back at you and I pick it up without looking at the water, and now I'm looking at you and I put it down without looking at the table. I figured gravity and the thing I just picked it up from are still there, detail oriented people.

(00:39:36):

They have a mag glass. It's like Inspector Cruso or Sherlock Holmes. And so when they talk to you, Jimmy Fallon, Amy Schumer, Jennifer Lawrence, their humor, all three of those people are about the details. They remember words from movies and words from songs. Watch them in interviews, right? They will talk. They're like smart bombs. So it's not just the water, it's all their energy is directed in one area. So Jimmy Fallon will talk and his hand points up and his eyes point up. You see Jennifer Lawrence, hi, nice to meet you with a handshake in her head. They're almost, I feel like I can't get away from their energy. If you're talking to me and all of a sudden, if Christie, your husband was doing this, I'd be like, whoa. Detail oriented, aren't you? You like to research the research and then recommend more research and watch how they put the drinks down. I'm speaking today at a company called Paylocity and two of their big executives. I watched them last night at their little cocktail hour, and I secretly videotaped them.

Mel Robbins (00:40:31):

Oh my God, are you going to play it during your keynote?

Janine Driver (00:40:33):

Oh yeah, I went up and asked for permission today. But as they drank their water, they watched it till it hit the table as if like, hi, I'll be right back. You made it. I said, are you detail oriented? You love to research the research to executives. They go, yes. How do you know that? I go simply by how I watched you drink your water. I said, if I put a coaster on the table and it was crooked, would you adjust the coaster? Both said a hundred percent. So in meetings, if you're listening in your business person, especially sales, make sure you have coasters crooked on the table. Now, some people who aren't detail oriented may just fix it because it's irritating. But watch, if they watch their glass when they put it all the way until it hits the table, someone like me when it hits the table, my eyes are back on you. It's not even looking at where it's,

Mel Robbins (00:41:17):

What does that tell you about how to sell to them?

Janine Driver (00:41:20):

It says they want lots of two things. One, they're going to want lots and lots of details. That's number one. Number two, in your emails, if you are detail oriented, your emails are probably too long. And someone like me, I'm never going to read your, I'm going to pick up the phone and call and say, okay, what do I need to know about this event? What's address code? Where is it? What you need to do? If you're detail oriented and your emails or text messages at the top, think like Twitter. Here's what you must know. Here's the three things you must know. Additional information is below someone like me who's not motivated by details. I don't look at the water when I put it down or pick it up. I need to do the opposite. Here's what you need to know. Boom, boom, boom. Here's a link to additional information if you'd like to explore on your own fun things to do while you're in Orlando, here's the link hotels. You can stay in Orlando. Here's the link Broadway shows you can see in New York. So if you understand people's behavioral fingerprints and there's a bunch of things, maybe I'll come back and play again and answer questions. You can sell to them differently. You can raise the kids differently. You can understand them. There's 7 billion, seven or 8 billion in the world, 26 billion different behavioral fingerprints.

Mel Robbins (00:42:31):

Oh my God. Now I'm overwhelmed. You know which ones I want to focus on.

Janine Driver (00:42:34):

Yeah,

Mel Robbins (00:42:35):

Deception.

Janine Driver (00:42:35):

Deception. Here we go. Shoulder shrug. A shoulder shrug we talked about earlier is uncertainty. When I say, Hey, Mel, what do you want for lunch? A salad, A, B, LT. I don't know. What do you want? A shoulder shrug makes sense there. Your verbal says, I don't know. And your nonverbal says, I don't know it's congruent. But when I say, Hey, Mel, your favorite Ted talk of mine is blank, and I shoulder shrug. It does not mean I don't like that talk, but it does indicate...

Janine Driver (00:43:10):

There's something I'm uncertain about. Ask me if I ever cheated on my husband when I was married to him.

Mel Robbins (00:43:14):

Did you ever cheat on your husband when you're married to him?

Janine Driver (00:43:16):

No. Now I said no. And for people who are listening, I shrugged at the same time, and that's why Mel's laughing. But it doesn't mean I cheated. See that shrug means Mel, you opened a file in a cabinet that says top secret of something I don't want to share with you. And maybe what I don't want to share is that he cheated on me and I'm called the human lie detector. Hypothetically, he cheated on me hypothetically. He went on Tinder two days before Christmas and my friend told me because he showed up in her account hypothetically. So the shoulder shrug doesn't mean I'm canceling what I'm saying, but it does mean there's something I'm uncertain about and I may not even realize it yet. Why? Because you have a five second advantage over my brain. I don't even realize I'm uncertain about something right now.

(00:44:03):

But if you can spot it, you can simply say, I call it MIW formula. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm wrong here, Mel. But it seems to me, it feels to me that you're uncertain about something and then let the person say, well, yeah, I just was in the bathroom and I overheard a woman saying her significant other stepping out on her, and she's devastated. It's not my story to tell, but when you asked if I cheated on my husband, you kind of open a file to just cheating in general. So that's why I was uncertain.

Mel Robbins (00:44:32):

I noticed in a lot of your commentary in some of the major murder cases that you have been an expert on that shoulder shrugging while husbands in particular who went on to be found guilty or confessing to murdering pregnant wives or members of their family that during press conferences you were picking up on shoulder shrugging.

(00:44:57):

So in our lives, if you have somebody in your life that you think is lying to you, whether it's a kid that you think is lying about what they were doing last night or a significant other that you think might be cheating or might not be telling you the truth is paying attention to whether or not they just sort of inadvertently raise their shoulders as they're talking. That is one clue that something's not right.

Janine Driver (00:45:24):

Yes, not only shoulders though, Mel, it's also hands. So sometimes a hand shrug, it's also uncertainty or a mouth shrug. I don't know what to tell you. So a hand shrug, a shoulder shrug or this mouth shrug where you can feel that someone's uncertain. It's hard to describe it here is indicating there's a hotspot here. We don't know what the catalyst is, but there's certainly something I'd want to ask more questions on with regard to this. If you're confronting the people in your life, stop saying Whatever you do, don't lie to me. Our brain doesn't understand the word, and so you're giving them an embedded command to lie to you, and it's 30% approximately hypnotic, more hypnotic than you just saying, Hey, during this interview, please lie to me. So what you want to say instead is what hostage negotiators say, and I have mentors.

(00:46:12):

I'm not a hostage negotiator. I have a mentor, Jim Kavanaugh, who is what they say is what you want instead is whatever you do today, I want you to tell me the truth. Whether you tell me the truth or you don't, we don't hear, tell me the truth. I know more than you think I know. So I'm going to use that embedded command after the don't to say, tell me the truth. So now I'm going to ask you some questions about where you were last night, and whether you tell me the truth or you don't pause, tell me the truth. I know more than you think I do. Now, last night when you said you went out with your girlfriends, did anyone else show up and talk to you? And I'm just

Mel Robbins (00:46:49):

Doing literally scared of shoulders down, lips down. Now, where was I last night? I dunno what I did. I think I was here. I think I was here. So hold on. I want to make sure that we get, so you now are going to watch shoulder shrugs?

Janine Driver (00:47:06):

Yes.

Mel Robbins (00:47:06):

If you are feeling like something's off, if you are then going to open up the file and explore more, you're counseling us, number one, to either start with, I could be wrong.

Janine Driver (00:47:19):

Yes.

Mel Robbins (00:47:20):

Or to say, I'm going to ask you a question and you're either going to tell me the truth or don't tell me the truth. It's the pause. Right?

Janine Driver (00:47:33):

That's it.

Mel Robbins (00:47:34):

Because then they hear the tell me the truth. I heard you say, tell me the truth twice. The don't sort of got swept under the rug, which is why I all of a sudden got nervous.

Janine Driver (00:47:45):

Yes. Yeah. Well kids, between the ages of eight and 13, the likelihood if you do this, the likelihood you'll get the kids to tell you the truth goes up to over 80%.

Mel Robbins (00:47:55):

Really?

Janine Driver (00:47:56):

Yeah. Yeah. It's called priming. So I'm like I say, I'm hijacking your brain, and then if I want to take it to the next level, I'm going to assign you a trait that I want you to have. Mel, everyone out here tells me you're a truthful person. Is this true?

Mel Robbins (00:48:11):

Yes. Although I'm now thinking, am I truthful? I dunno if I'm truthful. Am I truthful? I'm sitting. I mean, I literally, when you do this, I think you're looking right eye to right eye too. You're like commanding me. So you can say to your kid or your spouse or somebody that works for you. Everybody says that you're a very truthful person. Are you a truthful person?

Janine Driver (00:48:32):

You need to get them to say yes. Because what you're creating is cognitive dissonance. Because if you know that you're not a truthful person, but I just said yes that I am. Now we've created this fancy term called cognitive dissonance, which is confusing to the brain, and that's what we want. So hostage negotiator, my hostage negotiator mentor Jim Kavanaugh, said to David Koresh, if you are in the younger side and you don't know about this, was these Branch Davidian compound, this cult out in Texas years ago, the nineties. And he said to David Koresh, David Koresh was inside the compound on a payphone. My hostage negotiator mentor said, everyone out here says you're a man of your word. Is this true? Koresh said yes. Later. When Jim Kavanaugh said, will you let women and children go if we get your words read on the National Christian Radio Network?

(00:49:20):

Koresh said, yes. Guess what? Because he had accepted the trait that he does what he says he's going to do, that he has integrity. He let women and children go two by two. He said, like Noah's Ark, when the other hostage negotiator came on from the FBI, no, knock against the FBI, but not one other person walked out of that building alive. And it's not the FBI's fault, it was Jim Kavanaugh built such great rapport with David Koresh that he didn't want to work with anybody else, but we had a TF agents die. And so the FBI takes over. Now, by the way, I'm not saying A TFI used to work for A TF. I'm not saying they were in the wrong a hundred percent. They lost the element of surprise. They lied all the way up to Janet Reno. So I'm not saying that I don't want to get into that political battle, but assigning people the traits you want them to have.

(00:50:06):

My son, Angus, I went in and I said, you're addicted to video games. You're addicted to video games. How many times have you told your kids you're addicted to video games? And then we wonder when they're 20 and 30, they're addicted to porn, gambling, cheating, lying, alcohol. Well, the most important person in their life, us told them over and over and over again. They're an addict. So how can we right now assign ourselves a trait? I'm the world's greatest mom, honey, and I just found out how to be even better. We got to start with us. We got to plant the seeds. Us first we're great and then reframe and reset how we talk to our kids, say what we want, not what we don't want. Here's why. It comes back to body language. How we are talking to our kids and to ourselves is then going to influence the circle again, what we believe about ourselves and then the body language interaction. So

Mel Robbins (00:50:54):

What do we say to them instead of, you're addicted, you're playing too much.

Janine Driver (00:50:58):

I said to my son, Angus, Hey, what game are you playing? Some zombie apocalypse. I go, how do you play? Do you have to kill the zombies or catch 'em? He said, both. I go, so you understand the importance of balance. Is that true? Do you understand the importance of balance? Angus? He said, yeah. I go, Hey buddy. I thought so. I go, even your teachers tell me you're so good at balance, you're always on time and stuff because balancing your schedule throughout the day. Is that true too at school? Yeah. Oh good. I don't know if you know baby, but you've been playing video games for like four hours and your two brothers are swimming in the pool. He goes, it's been four hours. I go, yeah, how about we go swimming? And he goes, all right. I mean, legit go swimming. So we are making our lives so much harder, and I think body language is great and I can teach you to steeple, but if you steeple but you believe you have this limited belief about yourself that you're not powerful and that you're a loser and they're going to know you're trying to scam them with your confidence and it's fake confidence...

Janine Driver (00:51:52):

Then your shoulders are going to be up and you're going to look like this character out of a Harry Potter movie. So you've got to believe it. You got to believe

Mel Robbins (00:52:00):

It. But how do you believe it? If all you see is evidence that you failed or that you haven't believed in yourself or that you've put everybody else first? How do you create new roots?

Janine Driver (00:52:17):

I call this a reset and I took a class with a woman and we'll get back to detecting deception hopefully, but I took a class, have her on your podcast. Her name is Andrea Quinn. Now I'm from Boston. We say Andrea, she's from California. She says Andrea, she has a new book out. Don't ask me the name. I don't know. Have your team look it up and we can shut it out maybe. So Andrea Quinn, I took this class. She was out in LA and she calls these moments when we fail or people knock us down, good to know if we can do a reset. And she just calls 'em good to know. Hey Mel, I did not appreciate you getting me back focused on detecting deception when I wanted to talk about leadership. Good to know, good to know,

(00:52:56):

Good to know. They're just a bunch of good to knows. I spoke at an event called Camp Powerment. It's a women's based event and everyone sleeps in tents in little cabins and stuff, and I spoke there. It's for women wanting to do a reset and I spoke there and at the end, sometimes people come up and they're hugging me or crying. I make money as a motivational keynote speaker on body language and leadership and all that, sales and stuff, and there's like 42 women in line. I'm hugging them all. I spoke for 45 minutes, but I think I hugged people for two hours. The last woman she had big circle glasses, black glasses circle, right? Short, spiky hair. She had a cool vibe I thought. She came up to me and she said, Hey Janine, you were my roommate, your last class here last year with Sarah. And I'm like, oh my God, I love Sarah. She goes, yeah, Sarah loves you too. And she goes, I wanted to stay here and to talk to you because I just don't get it.

(00:53:54):

You speak twice today. I don't get what you're talking about how it's interesting to people. I don't like your personality. I just don't get what my best friend, who I've had for years likes about you. Old Janine would've received that, taken it in, influenced my body language, how I held myself, my limited beliefs, my roots would've been destroyed because thanks Andrea Quinn. I said to that woman, had you been there? Good to know Anything else you want to share with me? And I walked and wiped it off. I spoke in an event called Know Your Value. Mika Brezinski puts it together. It's a women's based event. Before me, it was Sarah Jessica Parker. I'm not saying this in a Bray way, Sarah Jessica Parker, Martha Stewart and Bobby Brown, the makeup artist before me. And then I'm the fat girl size 22 in the back of the room coming up next and I have 25 minutes and I got my stinking thinking coming in. Boy, they didn't get a standing ovation. People barely applauded. If they don't like them, they're never going to like me. No one even knows who I am. I'm not even famous to that level yet. And I go, Janine, pull your shoulders back. The difference between Superman and Clark Kent is a two inch posture difference. Clark Kent, his shoulders are pulled forward.

Janine Driver (00:55:07):

If you pull, not, we always say pull your shoulders back. That's actually wrong. You're never going to pull your shoulders back. You actually look weird like some type of a t.

Mel Robbins (00:55:14):

I just pulled my shoulders back the second you said there's a two inch difference. I'm like, okay, shoulders back. I'm about to get interrogated. Here we go.

Janine Driver (00:55:21):

We've been taught wrong. Okay, alright, what do we do? If you pull your shoulders back, it's actually uncomfortable and you're not, you look weird. Instead, I want you to think like Tony Stark, right? So Tony Stark has, he has this

Mel Robbins (00:55:34):

Circle thing. Oh yeah, for Iron Man,

Janine Driver (00:55:36):

Iron Man, he's got this circle orb that keeps him alive on his chest,

Mel Robbins (00:55:39):

Right?

Janine Driver (00:55:39):

I want you to imagine you have that in the center of your chest

Mel Robbins (00:55:42):

And

Janine Driver (00:55:42):

The laser beam shoots out of it. If that laser beam based on your posture is going to hit the ground, then you're being clock Kent. If you want to be Superman, where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling. So you just want to take that laser beam and lift your chest to where the wall meets the ceiling. Relax your shoulders, relax those. Yeah, much better. And as you're walking, you change how you are perceived. So I'm backstage, I'm in the back of the room. I always come in from the back and I'm after Martha Stewart and Sarah Jessica Parker, and I have my stinking thinking, and you can't be negative more than 17 seconds. After 17 seconds. I give my positivity, I'm amazing. I know cool stuff. I'm going to change their life. People in here are hurting. At least one woman needs to know this, that she's amazing.

(00:56:30):

And I do that and I go where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling, and I fire a laser beam right there where that wall meets the ceiling, and I come up for my 25 minutes and I got the only standing ovation for that conference. This girl that no one knew coming in size, 22, 24 in the back of the room hitting the stage, Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough talk about me the next day on their show. Morning, Joe. I sold a ton of online courses because of it, and all I did was notice self-awareness. Notice my stinking thinking, no more than 17 seconds of negativity, say five things about me that I love. I changed my posture and I changed. I know things. I'm not here to teach you to be healthy and strong and fit. I'm here to teach you about body language and the power of influencing people and emotional intelligence and loving ourselves. And then I just killed it. I just had a mad love affair with the audience. I made it less about me and more about them, and I'm like, they need what I know. My mother always said, your power is what you give to others.

Mel Robbins (00:57:30):

It's true. One of the things that you taught me that I never forgot was this concept called eye blocking. And the example that you gave about it being like our own personal passcode. Could you explain that to everybody and why this is such an important thing to pay attention to, whether it's in your kids or friendships or in a relationship with somebody.

Janine Driver (00:57:53):

Okay? Yes. And I just touched my eye when you started talking about eye blocking. So for

Mel Robbins (00:57:59):

People, I didn't even know that. I didn't notice it for

Janine Driver (00:58:00):

People may be watching it, you missed it. I touched the corner of my left eye and for people who did notice it. So this is your visual information channel. I want you to go back and watch the smell we have to turn up or my challenge to you is to turn up your visual information channel. So I touched my eye and I want to tell you why. So for me, I'm in Orlando, Florida. I'm speaking today for this company, and it's 1 0 3 and I can share with you till one 30. And I hit the stage at 2 22 15. I have to get miked at two. So as you were asking me the next question and my brain, I thought, Ooh, I better check the time to make sure I'm on time for this paid event. And so you asked me the new question When you did, I touched my eye without realizing it, and as soon as I did it, I go, people are going to see me touch my eye and they're going to be writing to Mel. Hey, Hey, Ms. Body language expert touched her own. You stress her out. She got nervous with you, Mel, I touched my eye, not out of nervousness with Mel or her question, but this is the story behind the story. And I wanted to share this with you because be careful of having a little information and saying, aha, I got you. It's about noticing the behavior. And then if you can ask those powerful questions, there's always that another story that you might not know. And so for me, that's what happened when I touched

Mel Robbins (00:59:13):

My eye. Got it, got it. I completely missed it. Eye.

Janine Driver (00:59:16):

So here's eye blocking. Eye blocking. I have an iPhone right here, right? So right now you can see there's a code that's popping up, right? So I have numbers one to nine, and then zero at the bottom. I have to enter my code to get access to my cell phone.

(00:59:32):

Eye blocking is you are putting up the code to inside your brain that you don't want people to have access to information that's inside your brain. So eye blocking can be, I put my hand over my eyes, I could be adjusting my hat, I could be breaking the eye contact. I'm looking away. So eye blocking is there's something I don't want you to see right now and I'm putting up my screensaver. And unless you have the code, which I'm going to give to you again, the MIW formula, maybe I'm wrong here, MIW. It seems to me there's something you're thinking about or something you're concerned about. And so eye blocking happens under high stress and high anxiety. People will block sidebar. I just weighed in on Gwyneth Paltrow was sued for this crazy thing that happened way back in, I think 2016. I was on court TV about it, and Gwyneth Paltrow gave eye contact very nicely, but pulled her lips in throughout the interview and to the new person who's listening to my content here with Mel, you might see if you had seen that lawsuit, you might've seen Aha.

(01:00:40):

She's lying. When we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear. We see Gwyneth Paltrow's lips disappearing. I went back and looked at interviews with Gwyneth Paltrow, with Johnny Depp on Ellen, and a whole bunch of stuff, A, B, C, and that's part of her baseline. We always want to get someone's baseline behavior. So because it's part of Gwyneth Paltrow's baseline, these lips disappearing. I throw it away. Did she do eye blocking? No eye blocking with Gwyneth Paltrow. As a matter of fact, if you want to know if you're a powerful person, which I know you are, Mel, high status versus low status, high status people give eye contact and look at you when they're listening to you. High status people also look at you when they're talking to you. Low status people look at you when they're listening, but when they talk, they break eye contact a lot.

Mel Robbins (01:01:30):

I do that

Janine Driver (01:01:31):

Eye blocking when they're

Mel Robbins (01:01:32):

Talking. I do that, Janine, I do that, but I think it's my A DHD. I notice that I have a really hard time staying in locked eye contact with somebody when I'm talking. I can do it laser beam focus when I'm listening to somebody. But there's something about searching for words or capturing my thought or something. I don't ever close my eyes, but I definitely look up or I look down and then I look back,

Janine Driver (01:02:03):

Okay? So I'm going to tell you, and I have a DHD as well, clearly. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding today, ping ball machine. I say it makes you even more likable because it is a low status thing to break eye contact when talking. And so what comes across as when we do that, or if someone's doing that, it comes across as You're not a know it all. You're still a work in progress. You don't think you're better than everyone else. As a matter of fact, Gwyneth Paltrow by doing this came across as not very likable. Everyone was saying it, not just me. I went on court tv. I go, listen, I believe she's telling the truth, but man, she is not likable in that courtroom. It's almost like intimidating to not break the eye contact, but you will be seen as someone that has a lower status that you're not the alpha dog saying, Hey, I'm the boss here. This is, you've got to do what I want to do. And that's not who you are. You're that team person. You're pulling us along with your journey.

Mel Robbins (01:03:01):

What are the top five things or doesn't matter what the number is, what are the top things that we can practice that help boost our influence and our likability when it comes to body language?

Janine Driver (01:03:15):

Okay. Alright. Confident and likable. We have three power zones, our neck dimple. I was going to back up and show you a little bit. So our neck dimple, it's our throat right here.

Mel Robbins (01:03:30):

Belly. Is that the neck? Dipple, like the little the dip in

Janine Driver (01:03:34):

There? Yeah, that supers notch or whatever. Whatever you say.

Mel Robbins (01:03:37):

Okay?

Janine Driver (01:03:38):

Your necklace lies right there. So your neck dimple your neck, your belly button, and then your lower extremity. I call it your naughty bits. It's from the holy grail. So your groin. I was on the Today Show and I was with a guy sitting next to me, Ted from Queer Eye, from the straight guy, the original Ted, the original guy. And he goes, what are you talking about with Al Roker? I said, my neck dimple, your belly button and your groin. You keep it open when you're confident and likable. He goes, please never say the word groin on a morning show. He said, say the holy say naughty bits. It's from the holy grail. I loved it, Mel, as you might imagine. And I went on there, I loved it, and I said, neck, dimple, belly button, and groin. Why? But I love naughty bits because we need to practice.

(01:04:22):

We need to practice, practice, practice. What you're learning today, you got to practice, say, today I'm going to pay attention to belly buttons. So keep our neck dimple, our belly button and our naughty bits open. Now let's talk about the belly button. I call this naval intelligence. We face our belly button towards people we like and admire and trust. So if I'm flirting with Brad Pitt, but my belly button is facing George Clooney, everyone thinks I'm flirting with Brad. I want to hook up with Brad, but really my belly button wants to go home with good old George in a meeting. Count up how many belly buttons are facing you. If you have 50% of the belly buttons facing someone else, then that person is probably your auction nemesis. And if I were to give you a tip, emotional intelligence is being smarter. I would make sure I'd have meetings with that person first to get them on my side before going into that other meeting because 50% of the ears are listening to that person on a date.

(01:05:14):

Pay attention if the date is over. I'm a talker, right? So are you talking past the sale even in an intimate thing on a date, right? Pay attention. That belly button is angled towards the door to the car. They want out. I call it naval intelligence and it's our first connection to another human being. Our belly button was connected, the umbilical cord. So the belly button rule, I call it. So keep the three power zones open. Watch your pacifiers, those high level pacifiers. If you're nervous and it happens, first of all, give yourself a positive trait, right? Plant that seed, that belief. And then if you need to pacify, do toe pushups inside your shoe. So you're up there. Never tell us you're nervous. Never say, oh, I'm not good at public speaking. I'm really nervous. I'm not good. Never do that because when you're nervous, we see it. And mirror neurons make us nervous and love you even more as soon as you disclaim it and like, oh, I'm nervous. I've never done this before. We're like, ah, she figured it out. Don't let us in. We are already seeing your body language. We're cheering you on. We love you so much. So instead, right here, do tote pushups one and two and three inside your shoes. We're not seeing what

Mel Robbins (01:06:19):

Does that do?

Janine Driver (01:06:20):

It's getting out that stress and anxiety.

Mel Robbins (01:06:23):

Wow.

Janine Driver (01:06:23):

Instead of doing this, instead of benching your foot, instead of doing this, just get that stress and anxiety. When you move your body, you move your mind. That's why exercise decreases stress. In law enforcement, we get more confessions walking from the jail cell back to the interrogation room or the interrogation room to the police car than we do in the interrogation room. When you move your body, you move your mind. So sometimes we just got to get people moving. I like to say if you're stressed, some people are anxious. So you have anxiety, by the way, if you are the type of person that you have anxiety and you say, but what if this happens? But what if that happens? We need a plan. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, right? You're kind of gloom and doomy and everyone lets you know it. Would you like to know what your superpower is?

Mel Robbins (01:07:06):

Yes. You can see around corners

Janine Driver (01:07:08):

Their superpower is they can lean back into the past, bring the past mistakes and past wins into the future, into now, and lean into the future and use that future. Now, they're trend spotters. They set goals, they measure progress, they update plans. These are the people. Every weakness that we have, you're lazy. You don't finish projects. 80% you finish. It's connected to body language. You don't finish projects. Like my ex-husband, that's his cute nickname. I called him lazy, right? I call him the 80% man. He'd paint a room and leave it 20% undone. How long were you married? 20 years. I was with him. But we get along great. He is one of my best friends, thanked by the grace of God, 20 long years. It's like SpongeBob 20 years later. But you know what his superpower was?

Mel Robbins (01:07:57):

No. A

Janine Driver (01:07:57):

Lazy person who doesn't finish work. Flexibility. When's the last time you thanked people for their flexibility? We spend every Christmas in Boston. He's from California. Every Halloween, every Easter, every Thanksgiving when we go to movies, I pick the movie. When we're making dinner, I pick the dinner. I never thanked him for his flexibility, but I made fun of his laziness until I discovered this is my next TED Talks. You're getting a sneak peek that all of our decision-making weaknesses have corresponding superpowers. So if you have people that don't finish projects in your life, I bet you they're the most flexible people in your life. And you may want to thank them and say, I didn't realize you have a superpower flexibility. And I want to honor that and thank you for being so flexible.

Mel Robbins (01:08:38):

What do you think is the biggest thing that you've learned after decades of studying human beings and this hidden second language that we all have that's helped you in your everyday life?

Janine Driver (01:08:53):

The biggest thing that I've learned, I would say that I believe in comebacks because I've experienced them and I believe in comebacks, and I believe there's a story behind the story. Susan Smith was the most hated mother in the world at the time when she killed her two young sons because she was dating a guy that didn't want to date a woman that had kids later became Casey Anthony, and then now there's others. But Susan Smith drown her two kids, and she was the most hated mother. And what most people don't know is she started being raped and molested by her father at like three and four years old. So it makes me emotional as a mother, just imagining my kids at the age of three, and I'm not saying what Susan Smith did was justified, but I'm saying there's a story behind a story and there's that expression, and they quoted it in that, what's that soccer movie?

(01:10:01):

That soccer TV series, Ted Lasso in one of the episodes they quoted it, stop being so judgmental and stop being curious, asking questions. And I think that there's a story behind the story. And Susan Smith was raped by her dad, her whole childhood, even as a young woman continue to happen. And then in her young teens would go back to the dad's house and have sex with her dad. And so I'm always interested in what's the story behind the story here? Can I find a little bit of compassion or empathy? And I believe in comebacks because I've experienced them and I'm a work in progress all the time. I'm an eternal student. At this event this morning, I sat in there for five hours. I wanted to learn. I took about five pages of notes just listening to two CEOs who this company Paylocity just hit the billion dollar mark for the first time. I wanted to hear every word they had to say. They were asked what's the biggest thing that they learned at working together in their life? And I'm taking notes. So I think that, I don't know, I believe in comebacks. That's it. You had a comeback. I

Mel Robbins (01:11:06):

Believe in comebacks. I've had multiple. Of course I do. And I also believe in what you were talking about, which is when you seek to understand something,

Janine Driver (01:11:14):

Mel Robbins (01:11:15):

Doesn't condone what somebody did, but it can explain why it happened.

Janine Driver (01:11:22):

Yeah, listen, I was molested as a kid. I could have became a Susan Smith. I happened to have a mother that loves me so much that she took this pain and believed me. And she used to say, Janine, I could drop you in a room with a hundred strangers and you leave with a hundred friends. Now, first of all, that's not true. I would leave with 50 friends and 50 people who never want to see me again. I talk too fast and I'm just a little too much for some people. And you know what that is? It's a good to know.

Mel Robbins (01:11:51):

That's kind of my favorite thing that I learned today.

Janine Driver (01:11:53):

Yeah, I love a good to know that.

Mel Robbins (01:11:54):

It's a good to know. That's good to know. Andrea Quinn.

Janine Driver (01:11:56):

Andrea Quinn buy her book. I don't know what it's called, but buy her book. And it's like Andrea Quinn, she calls 'em the eight quintessentials for women to have their dreams come true. Something like that. I'm maybe misquoting it, but good to know. Save my life all the time. And I love teaching what I'm teaching. If I can help anyone, please, I love my mother always said, your power is what you give to others.

Mel Robbins (01:12:19):

Can you explain a couple examples of eye blocking?

Janine Driver (01:12:22):

Yeah. So a guy, a murderer named Chris Watts killed his pregnant wife, Shanan, his two young daughters, Celeste and Bella, little ones under the age of six. And when he was being interviewed, not only him, we have Ted Bundy, we have Susan Smith who I brought up earlier, drown her two kids. So these are criminals. Of course, I weigh in on criminal. I say, if you can decode the body language of murderers, I did a TED talk to code the body language of murderers to have a life you love because they have everything on the line, right? If they're going to be good at lying, it's now because they are going to lose their life potentially, or their freedom at the very least. So if you look at all those people, I think Ted Bundy, and then there was the other guy that killed his pregnant

Mel Robbins (01:13:08):

Wife, Scott Peterson.

Janine Driver (01:13:09):

Scott Peterson. If you look on my Ted Talk, I tell you how long they eye block. And so sometimes they'll just talk like this with their eyes closed. I think Susan Smith was something like 16 seconds. So if right now I'm closing my eyes, if you see me, everyone close your eyes and just talk out loud and say what's your biggest thing you've learned today that you, like Mel just said, she loves the good to know from Andrea Quinn, right? That have impacted my life. So I'm going to give it a hot second.

Mel Robbins (01:13:34):

This is so weird.

Janine Driver (01:13:35):

Just close your eyes, Mel, you do it for me. Closing your eyes. Tell me something else that you really loved learning today. Well, closing your eyes. Do not open them.

Mel Robbins (01:13:46):

I really did love the good to know, and I'm really freaked out by how weird it is to talk with my eyes closed and I'm trying desperately not to shrug my shoulders at the same time.

Janine Driver (01:13:57):

Okay, that was about 11 seconds. Alright? Oh my

Mel Robbins (01:13:59):

God, that's so weird.

Janine Driver (01:14:01):

Yes. So if you can just, I say you can't unexperience it, unhear it or unsee it. So when you see something weird or you hear something weird, slow down and it on Casey Anthony, the mother, her name is Cindy Anthony Casey, Anthony's mother. So she's the grandmother of Kaylee Anthony. She called the police on 9 1 1 and said, my daughter's been missing. And I just found out my granddaughter's been missing for 30 days and it smells like there's been a dead body in the trunk of the dam car. When police interviewed Casey Anthony about the smell in her car, she said, dead squirrels climbed into truck, climbed into my engine and reed, I mean dead squirrels climbed into my engine and died. That's what she said. So if they're dead, how are they climbing? And then what did they died? Are they zombie squirrels? But our brain plays tricks on us, mal and you at home dead squirrels climbed in my engine and died.

(01:14:55):

And what our brain does is says, oh, what she means is a squirrel climbed up into her trunk and died. Roger Clemens, did you cheat in baseball and takes steroids? He said, how do I prove a negative? What you mean? How do I get people to know that I'm telling the truth? Our body and brain does not want us to lie, and they're having a conversation with one another. So the tells are there, we only talked about a handful today. There's over 5,000 body language and words that have hidden meaning. Words have hidden a meaning. If I said to you, Mel, I just left my office. I'm going to get to the restaurant 10 minutes early. Mel, take your time. I've got some work I can do. What's my hidden meaning in what I just said? Do you know I just left my house? I just left.

Mel Robbins (01:15:38):

But that you haven't just left.

Janine Driver (01:15:40):

Some people will think I didn't leave and I'm trying to cover my ass for when I'm going to be late. Some people think I'm being passive aggressive and I'm saying be there because I'll be there early. And maybe those things are true. But here's what I want you to focus on. The word left equals strife. I left my husband, I left my job. If someone emails you, text messages you tells you on a phone or face-to-face and they use the word left, they're telling you about something that happened that involved strife some problem. I just left my house just as a minimizing word. So you Mel might say, if I was smart, if you were smart in sales, or my friend Janine, is today still a good day? I'm free all week if you want to get together another day. Is today good? Oh, Mel, do you mind?

(01:16:23):

I'm having a tough morning. Or if you can't cancel that meeting when I arrive, don't start pitching me. Whatever you're pitching me, stop and say, Hey, is everything okay, Mel? Is everything okay this morning? Everything all right in the office? Because left LEFT equal strife. I left my job. I left my husband. So there's 5,000 words within in meaning 5,000 body land. We just had a sneak peek. Hopefully something sticks. And I got to tell you that Andrea Quinn, good to know, game changer for me. My son, Angus, his girlfriend just broke up with him, his first girlfriend, he was all upset and she was badmouthing him at the school and she broke his heart and she was saying something loud enough for him to hear it. And he came in and he's laughing. He just took the a CT test this weekend. He came out laughing at the school. I go, why you laughing? He goes, she wanted me to take the bait, but I didn't take the bait. She said, I didn't text her this morning. So she's going to hate me for the rest of her life. But I was going to say happy birthday if I saw her. I didn't text her because she broke up with me, but I would've said it if I had alone time with her. And he goes, she badmouthed me. I go, why are you laughing? He goes, because it's just a good to know.

Mel Robbins (01:17:29):

Janine Driver (01:17:29):

Saw a side about her that I didn't know existed. So I love sharing what we learned from you Mel Robbins, from people like the Andrea Quinns of the world and people like my mentor, Jim Kavanaugh and other mentors I've had. I love sharing it with people, including my kids, and to rewrite our story because I believe we are all entitled and deserve a comeback. Everybody,

Mel Robbins (01:17:51):

Everybody. And we need to stop doubting ourselves and just start looking at the signs. And I love the other thing that you said, which is I might be wrong. As the segue in to calling out something that seems off one final thing. You're on a date and you're really like this person, or you're in a job interview and you really want the job. What is a body language move that you can use to signal, pick me Power, confidence. What do you

Janine Driver (01:18:23):

Do? Two things. Number one, how you start the date or the job interview, I want you to end it. So if you start with a hug, I want you to end with a hug. If you start with a handshake, I want you to end with a handshake. We blow the ending so many times, especially in business because that's called the recency effect. The recency effect is those last couple moments that you had with me, what happened there? So if I'm in an interview and you get a call and you're like, excuse me, Janine, it was a pleasure meeting you. I got to take this call. I still want you in a second to lean over that table, stretch out your hand. Not a problem, Mel. It was great to see you again. Boom. Get that handshake. We blow it and the ending, we blow it on the ending. So bookend that, right? So bookend it with that handshake or the hug.

Mel Robbins (01:19:04):

That's

Janine Driver (01:19:05):

Number one. Number two, where you sit is making a difference. Stop sitting directly opposite people. This is the fighting pose on dates or on job interviews. The seat is right across from the person interviewing me. Or you go to the Outback steakhouse and you're in a booth. Do not sit directly across from this potential new significant other. You want to be 30% off center. And there's advanced techniques on which side. We'll have to talk about that another time. But be at the very least 30% off center. Here's why. They have a visual way out. It will decrease their stress and anxiety. You'll have a visual way out and decrease yours. Feel what it feels like tonight at the table or at work. Sit directly across from someone, shake their hand and say, I'm so happy you're here. Tell me what you love about our family.

(01:19:49):

Then come in, move the chair, 30% off center and have that same conversation. Watch what happens. We're all energy at the end of the day, right? I mean, we're always constantly changing. My friend at the FBI, Frank Morris, you should have him on. He says, everything says something. Everything says something. Even no facial expression says something, right? 30% off center. But Janine, if I go into an office and the chair's right there, you want me to move the chair? Yeah, yeah, I do. I want you to come in, shake their hand, move the chair, 30% off center. When it's done, you shake the hand and you put the chair back. So bookend it. I end all of my days with my three children with, I call them up, down ups, something good that happened today, something not so good and something good that happened today, up, down, ups.

(01:20:35):

So we say, what are your up down ups? I teach my kids for everyone bad thing. There's a good thing. Book ending it and book ended it. What are your A? You can use up down ups for yourself or your family. I realized my three kids weren't sharing. How was your day? Good. Up, down ups. I know very specific information, just like you give information in that sandwich. Negative feedback, you put it in the middle. If not, I wouldn't give it at all. I never take pictures of bad body language ever because this Andrea Quinn, she teaches you how to figure out your five I ams who you are, who you were born to be, and I am truth. I am power. I'm generosity. I am a healer and I am open and healer. I said to Andrea Quinn, I am funny. I said to do standup comedy in my twenties in New York.

(01:21:25):

Opened up for Chris Rock, Robin Williams, Ray Romano when I was 25. I have no pictures to prove it, Mel. And I said, I'm funny. She said, no, funny is I am a healer. And it shifted my sense of humor like that. How we talk about ourselves will change our actions, our body language. It goes back to that roots of the tree. So when I take pictures, I used to take pictures of bad body language and I would show it, don't do this. Do this at the butt of the person with the negative body language. Now I use my humor for healing. I'll come in from the back of the room. I love elbow pops, by the way. An elbow pop. Very thirties.

Mel Robbins (01:22:02):

Oh, I love an elbow pop too.

Janine Driver (01:22:04):

Yeah, you pop your elbow over the chair. We'd see Liz Taylor, do this with a long cigarette. Look at me, boys look at me, very confident to do an elbow pop, casual confidence. And I'll go to the back of the room and I used to say, oh, look at this person. They're important or they think they're important. And everyone would laugh. Now I go, look at this person. They're important or they're on their way to becoming important on the break. Make sure all of you get a picture with this person because someday you may be working for them. And that lens shift of I am a healer, my humors used for healing, goes back to our words, create the seeds that then create what I believe about myself. Then changes my body language and changes what I think. And so it's constantly going there. Bookend.

Mel Robbins (01:22:47):

You got to go,

Janine Driver (01:22:49):

Shakes,

Mel Robbins (01:22:49):

Bookend takes. I'm not going to be responsible for you. I know being late driver.

Janine Driver (01:22:55):

Bye everybody. Thanks Mel. I love you. Thanks for changing the world. If you stuck around and listened to this whole interview, I talk fast. I'm a Boston girl, please rewatch it and listen and thanks Mel for doing what you're doing. I love you. You're changing the world. You too, and I'm one of the people you've impacted.

Mel Robbins (01:23:10):

Oh, well, you've absolutely impacted me too. I love you. I give you an air hug when you arrive, so I'm going to bookend it with an air hug back.

Janine Driver (01:23:17):

Bye everybody. Kill. Love you. Be safe. Be kind to yourself. Bye.

Mel Robbins (01:23:21):

You interestingly, my biggest takeaway, I guess there were two, and I would love to hear your takeaway from this. You know what? Now there's three actually, because I loved the way that she taught us all about steeping in a meeting and how to use that to regain power and exert dominance without saying a word. When you're being talked over, particularly for women, because I had always been told that if somebody's interrupting you in a meeting, keep talking and don't let them interrupt you. But I actually like the confidence of kind of putting the steeple up kind of high, like a giant triangular middle finger. Thanks, Bob. And leaning back like, okay, I'll wait while the hot air comes out of your mouth. And then doing that right eye to right eye staring at your forehead, kind of. You know how your dog often does that.

(01:24:20):

I'm leaning back. I was showing dominance. That was one thing that really made me go, I'm going to try that. Second thing I just absolutely love. Good to know, good to know how liberating that you don't have to waste your energy defending yourself, explaining yourself or reacting to somebody's criticism, somebody's complaint, somebody's anything that you don't really care about. It's just a good to know. Good to know. Boy, I like that one. That was a really big one. And the final big one for me was just this notion of I might be wrong. And giving yourself permission to lean into your own intuition and wisdom around decoding body language. You know that I talk a lot about your inner wisdom, and when you give yourself permission to spot a sign, to catch somebody touching their eye, shrugging their shoulders, averting their eyes, when you know something feels a little off, lean into it. I could be wrong here, but are you okay? I could be wrong here, but it doesn't seem like you want to do this tonight. I could be wrong here, but there's some on your phone you don't want me to see.

(01:25:45):

Oh, wait, you know what? I just thought of another one. Do you remember when she questioned me and she said, I've heard that you're an honest person. Is it true that you're an honest person? That was world-class trickery. It made me so nervous and on the spot because she was complimenting me, and I also knew she was on to me and that I had to be honest. That was a good one too. I got a lot out of this actually, and I don't know why I'm sounding surprised because every time I talk to Janine, it's like, well, I guess that's what you get when you're talking to an expert that's worked for the FBI and CIA studying murders for two decades. So from true crime to truth telling to true deception, we covered it all. And I am confident that you left with some pretty empowering and tactical tools that you can start using immediately.

(01:26:42):

And in case nobody else tells you, I'm going to tell you that I love you and I'm looking right at you like this. My shoulders are not shrugged. I love you. I believe in you, and I believe and your ability to tell the truth, to spot the truth, and to create a better life. I'll see you in a few days. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.

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Guests Appearing in this Episode

Janine Driver

Janine Driver is a body language expert who has been trained by the FBI and CIA. She has spent over three decades decoding body language for law enforcement agencies around the country.

Book: You Can't Lie to Me
Janine Driver was trained as a lie detection expert for the ATF, FBI, and the CIA and is a New York Times bestselling author (You Say More Than You Think). Now she makes a powerful and incontrovertible declaration: You Can’t Lie to Me. Driver—who is known in professional circles as “the Lyin’ Tamer” and has demonstrated her world-renowned expertise on such programs as The Today Show, The Dr. Oz Show, and Nancy Grace—now offers readers essential tools that will enable them to detect deceptions, recognize a liar, and ultimately improve their lives. For readers of Never Be Lied to Again by David Lieberman and anyone worried about the possibility of cheating partners, devious co-workers, lying employees, or ubiquitous con men, You Can’t Lie to Me will help you uncover the truth in any situation while giving you the skills you need to keep yourself happy, your family safe, and your business protected.

Resources

- Forbes: 5 ways body language impacts leadership results.
- Scientific American: Language patterns reveal body’s response to stress.
- Court TV: Watch Janine in action analyzing Amber Heard’s court reactions.
- National Library of Medicine: How a smile impacts students’ learning.
- Harvard Science Review: The study of kinesics: what are really saying?
- Watch this TED Talk to learn about the hidden powers of smiling.

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2 Million Readers. 1 Life-Changing Newsletter

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1 Life-Changing Newsletter