Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You

Mel Robbins (00:00:12):

What does that mean?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:00:13):

He didn't want me to make the same choices that he made. And he would always tell me that if I didn't change my lifestyle, especially when I started really getting in trouble in the street that I was going to end up in jail, dead or broke, sitting under a tree. I worked at Taco Bell, I worked at a clothing store in the mall called Demo. I did telemarketing. I was the guy that would call your house and try to sell you 20 CDs for a penny just to avoid being in the street. You got to love every version of yourself.

 

Mel Robbins (00:00:39):

How the hell do you do that? Because every single one of us can look back at a moment in time,

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:00:43):

Yes,

 

Mel Robbins (00:00:44):

And just you just cringe. You want to erase that person? We beat ourselves up over it. How the hell did you get to a point where you could love every version of yourself?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:00:54):

You got to give yourself grace because you just did not know what it is that you know now. So why would you ever beat yourself up for what you did not know? There's no redo on this thing called life this day that you're living right now. You're never getting back. So you're going to have to start making changes in your life right now to get to where it is that you need to be.

 

Mel Robbins (00:01:20):

Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am ecstatic that you are here with me right now. It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. But today, today you are in for something truly special. And if you're a new listener, I also just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I am so thrilled that you're here and because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. I know that you're the type of person who not only values your time, but you also want to use the time that you have in this life to create a life that is driven by purpose. And if you're listening to this conversation today because somebody sent this episode to you, that is so cool because you have people in your life that care about you, and they not only care about you, they see a bigger possibility for your life, which is why they recommended that you listen to this episode.

 

(00:02:13):

So thank you for trusting them because it shows that you see bigger possibilities for your life too. And so does the person that you're about to meet. Charlemagne, the God Charlemagne hopped on a plane this morning after co-hosting one of the biggest radio shows on the planet. It's called The Breakfast Club. And just to understand how influential his perspective and his voices, 4 million people listen every single week to The Breakfast Club. To put this in a visual sense, 4 million people, that's 50 Super Bowl stadiums where every single seat is full and everyone is tuned in listening every single week. And that's just the people listening to the radio. There's another 6 million more people that follow the on YouTube, and that's not all that Charlemagne does. He's been inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame. He's a three-time New York Times bestselling author, an Emmy award-winning executive producer.

 

(00:03:10):

He's also the co-founder of The Black Effect Podcast Network, one of the most successful podcast networks in the world where he is produced 47 shows that have won all the biggest awards that are available to shows in podcasting. He's also the founder of a publishing imprint, black Privilege Publishing in partnership with Simon and Schuster, which has released 12 books and already released bestsellers, including his latest Get Honest or Die Lying. He's hosted several award-winning television programs, and he is also the founder of The Mental Wealth Alliance, which focuses on advocating for mental health. And to top it all off, he's also an ambassador for the food bank in New York City. But his life wasn't always this way. And you're about to hear the extraordinary story, the twists, the turns, the lessons learned, the regrets and the mistakes that he's made. And look, you can always learn from your own mistakes, but today you have the honor of getting to learn from his. So Charlamagne, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so thrilled that you're here.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:04:15):

Thank you for having me, Mel.

 

Mel Robbins (00:04:17):

I am a huge fan of yours.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:04:18):

I appreciate that. And the feeling is definitely mutual. I bought my Let Em Theory book in here, and it's so funny. Last week my wife comes to me and my wife goes, I ordered you a book. You need to read it Immediately. I've been complaining about some things, right? Really? I was complaining about people

 

Mel Robbins (00:04:35):

And

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:04:35):

She was like, you need to read this book immediately. And it came and it was the Let 'em Theory. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm doing Mel's podcast on Wednesday. And she was like, really? And then today she sent me tickets because you're going to be in New York Beacon Theater. Yes. She was like, I want to go to this.

 

Mel Robbins (00:04:50):

Yes.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:04:50):

Well, my dad, that's is all God. I was like, wow. I'm literally doing her show on Wednesday.

 

Mel Robbins (00:04:54):

Well, we are destined to be together today, together, and I'm going to come see you in April on your show. And so this is the beginning of a lot of amazing things that we're going to do. And here's how I'd like to start. Could you tell the person who is listening right now that's spending time together with us, what they might expect to be different about their life or the life of somebody that they care about based on everything that you're about to share with us today about your life lessons learned, the incredible things that you sell and you talk about in your bestselling books, what could change about their life?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:05:26):

We'll see, and the reason I say we'll see is because you never know where a great conversation is going to take you. We're all on different spiritual journeys. I feel like right now sitting here on the Mel Robbins podcast, this is part of a spiritual journey that I feel like I've been going on my whole life. So let's see what comes up.

 

Mel Robbins (00:05:45):

Well, I'm going to tell you something. I am a huge fan of yours. I have devoured your books. I listened to you.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:05:51):

Thank you.

 

Mel Robbins (00:05:52):

There is not a doubt in my mind that by the time our conversation is done and you so generously share mistakes, made lessons learned, the tools that you use in order to transform your mind to build this extraordinary career, the things that you've learned as a parent about forgiveness, about regret, about peace, you cannot listen to this conversation. I'm going to predict and not feel completely transformed. I would not have invited you to be here if I did not think that you were of service to a bigger mission. And that listening to you is one of the most worthy things that somebody could do with their time.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:06:36):

So maybe that's what it is. I mean, yeah, maybe that's what it is. I want people to hear this conversation today and immediately walk away and say, you know what? I need to go be of service. I need to answer that call that's going on in my spirit right now that's telling me to go out there and just go do something. Do something for myself, but more importantly, go do something for somebody else. Go be of service. That's what I want people to learn from this conversation, how to be of service.

 

Mel Robbins (00:07:06):

Well, now it feels like we're in church Charlamagne, and I could not be more thrilled to be here with you, but all of this wisdom that you're about to pour into us, it actually didn't come from all the success. It came from all the struggle. And 

Charlamagne tha God (00:07:30):

Yeah, I mean, right now I'm a multimedia personality from radio to television, the books, the podcasts like you said. But I come from extreme humble beginnings, Mount Corner, South Carolina, raised on a dirt road, grew up in a single wide trailer. Mom was a school teacher, an English teacher who kept the book in my face. My dad did construction, but he had his own issues with mental health and the run-ins with the law and drug addiction and substance abuse. But the one thing that we always had was love. And they always, especially my dad, I always say my dad raised me out of fear and not love. And

 

Mel Robbins (00:08:09):

What does that mean?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:08:11):

He didn't want me to end up making the same mistakes that he made. He didn't want me to make the same choices that he made. And he would always tell me that if I didn't change my lifestyle, especially when I started really getting in trouble in the street, that I was going to end up in jail dead or broke, sitting under a tree. So that was literally his mentality. He didn't want his oldest son to end up in jail, dead or broke, sitting under a tree. So he really used to be on me, but he would discipline me for things he didn't necessarily teach me.

 

Mel Robbins (00:08:39):

What does that mean?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:08:42):

I remember being in therapy. The first real breakthrough I had in therapy is realizing that, I'll give you an example. I remember one time I had just got my license, and so I'm following him. He was like, yo follow as I'm driving in the car, just follow me. All right, so I'm following him. Mind you, I'm a 16-year-old kid. I'm following him. He's driving. So he's driving down Gillard Road in Mo Corner, South Carolina. I'm following him. When you're driving down Gillard Road, you veer off into a highway called Highway 52. So there's a stop sign. He doesn't stop at the stop sign, he just goes through on the highway. So what do you think I do? I just go through on the highway. So then he pulls over. So I pull over behind him, he gets out the car, rolled windows down, he smacks the shit at me, tells me to pay attention.

 

(00:09:24):

I didn't see that stop sign. And I'm like, you didn't see the stop sign? I didn't say that to him. I like you didn't see the stop sign you got to hit again. But that's my point. He would discipline me for things that he never taught me. So yeah, he raised me very hard and I always said it was out fear and not love, just it was the fear that I would end up making. A lot of the same mistakes that he made will say, one thing you do got to learn about your kids is that your kids are going to live their life regardless. No matter how much you try to hold onto 'em, no matter how much you try to discipline them, they're going to still live their life regardless. And guess what? You got to let them. You got to let them.

 

Mel Robbins (00:10:07):

Well played.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:10:07):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:10:08):

Well played. Talk to me about the name Charlemagne tha God.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:10:11):

Yeah, when I was in night school, because I got kicked out of two high schools, so I was in night school.

 

Mel Robbins (00:10:17):

So how old are we talking?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:10:20):

Probably the same age. Like 17, maybe 17, maybe 18. I'm not sure. I graduated from night school in 1998. I'm sitting in night school and at the time I used to call myself Charlie Chronic because it sounds so stupid now when I'm old, but we used to have a crew called the infamous Buddha Head. So all of us took names of marijuana. So you had Mikey Marijuana, I Kabad,

 

(00:10:44):

And I was Charlie Chronic, right? Bobby Buddha. That was our names. And I used to always say my name was Charles because when I used to sell crack, I would wear a hoodie, give this alias, because I didn't want the guys and women who were buying crack from me to go back and tell my parents, I'm from a small town. Well, of course, so everybody's judgmental. Even though you're buying it from me, you still go tell my parents. And so I'm reading in the history book about Charlemagne and Charlemagne, it said, Charlemagne is French for Charles the great. And he was a Roman emperor who went around spreading religion and education. And I literally was like, that's a cool name. I'm going to start calling myself Charlemagne. And the God comes from the 5% teachers and the 5% teachings, they say God is a Greek word, raic words, Goma, oz, deba, which means wisdom, scrimp and beauty. So I'm like, I'm going to start calling myself Charlemagne to God, which really didn't make no sense because Charlamagne is French for Charles de Great. So it's like Charles de great to God, but guess what? I was 19 years old smoking a lot of weed. So it didn't really have to make sense. It just looked cool. And I always said, that's going to look really good on a marquee one day.

 

Mel Robbins (00:11:42):

You're a good marketer.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:11:44):

I said, that's going to look really good on the cover of a book one day.

 

Mel Robbins (00:11:46):

But it also means I've read in your work that God is within you.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:11:52):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:11:53):

And talk to me more about that.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:11:55):

I feel like you can either submit your will to the God in you or you can submit your will to the devil in you. And God is in each and every one of us. It says in Genesis chapter 1 26 says, God created man in his image according to his likeness. And I feel like if you keep that mindset, it'll at least give you something to constantly strive to. It'll give you something to constantly look towards and know that you have that inner being within you, knowing that you're really a spiritual being, living a human existence. And I mean, I've always literally tried to move that I'm one of those people that actually believed my grandma and my mom when they told me God was always watching, even though I didn't always make the right decisions, I still strive to move like God was always watching because God is within, I am an extinction of my creative.

 

Mel Robbins (00:12:48):

So I want you to talk to the person and speak to that moment in your life where you are dealing drugs, you are using an alias because you don't want your parents to find out, which is smart thinking

 

(00:13:06):

And believe as a spiritual person that God is always watching. And so you have the sense, because you've already talked about choice, there must be this tension of you feeling like, this isn't what I'm meant to do, but I'm making a choice to do this. Absolutely. What do you want to say to the person? I think that's a very relatable thing in life where you have this sense of a greater purpose, but you are trapped where you are now and you even see yourself. I think about moments in my life, whether it was drinking too much or drugs or it was cheating on people that I was with or stealing or whatever the hell it may have been things that I knew in the moment were choices that I was making, and I felt like I had no other choice. Do you know what I mean? But I still felt like there was something better for me, but I didn't know how to bridge it. What would you say to the person that's listening that actually feels that right now in their life?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:13:58):

Man, number one, whatever you're doing that's negative, you can't escape from it. There's a million tens of millions of people who have done the exact same thing that you're currently doing, and you know how that movie is going to end and it's going to end the same way for you if you continue down that path. And what I would tell folks is you don't have to know what it is you want to do. You just know that you want to do something. So why not put positive energy into whatever it is you're trying to do or just put positive energy into your life, period. An acronym that I love is a positive energy activates constant elevation.

 

Mel Robbins (00:14:38):

Positive energy activates constant elevation, and that's

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:14:41):

Peace.

 

Mel Robbins (00:14:42):

Oh, it is?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:14:43):

Yeah. Positive energy activates constant elevation, right? So for me was I noted if I constantly keep doing this, my dad said I'm going to end up in jail, dead or broke, sitting under the tree. And when you start seeing that actually happen, whether it's to you or other people around you, if you continue down that path, once again, you made the choice so you got to deal with it. But for me, I decided to say, yo, I'm going to do whatever I got to do to not do this. So I worked, worked at Taco Bell, I worked at a clothing store in the mall called Demo. I did telemarketing. I was the guy that would call your house and try to sell you 20 CDs for a penny. I did. I've never that shit. I did so many fucking odd jobs just to avoid being in the street. And I just felt like

 

Mel Robbins (00:15:27):

Was there a moment though, because I was a public defender for legal aid in New York City. And I do feel like when you are in that loop of making really bad choices and you feel like you have no options and you're also surrounded by people that are doing the same thing, it takes a level of courage to wake up and go, I'm not doing this anymore.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:15:49):

Man. That's so true.

 

Mel Robbins (00:15:50):

Do you remember, was there a moment, so what was the moment where you're like, I'm not going down like this?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:15:56):

Well, the first time I got arrested, I was sitting in the backseat of a car and one of my homeboys shot at somebody. So we all ended up going to jail. Literally they came and got me out of the high school. The second high school I had went to, because I got kicked out of the first high school. And my mom was teaching at this high school, Rafford High School, and they thought I would behave more because my mom was there. So I ended up getting caught up in that situation. I think I did 45 days in the county jail. My dad ultimately ended up bailing me out, and I tried to be on the straight and narrow a little bit, but to your point, the allure of the streets, a lot of the people that I was hanging around and being with, they were in the streets heavy. So I was like,

 

Mel Robbins (00:16:34):

Well, it's your community, it's your friends, it's what's around you. And then you start to tell yourself the story. I got no other options.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:16:39):

Absolutely. And so it goes from acting up in school to now all of us are getting a little bit older, but we're getting introduced to things like the drug game. And I'm watching people make a little bit of money, so I want to make a little bit of money too. And I remember I was involved in the drug bust. The house that we used to sell dope out of got busted. And I remember just being in those handcuffs and all of us, it's literally 11 or 12 of us in a holding cell in Monks Corner, South Carolina in the Berkeley County Detention Center. And I was just like, yo, I'm back in jail again. And I remember looking at the steel toilet in the holding cell with all of these people in it and just throwing up. And I was like, it's it for me. Literally.

 

(00:17:22):

I'm going to figure out my life in a real way to another thing that I always thought about when my dad would tell me that people end up in jail dead or broke sitting under the tree. I had a lot of people that I used to look up to who didn't make the best choices, and I saw that happening to them. And something just started clicking to me like, yo, there's no redo on this thing called life this day that you're living right now. You're never getting back. So you're going to have to start making changes in your life right now to get to where it is that you need to be because one day you're going to wake up and you're going to be 30. And Biggie Smalls had this great lyric, biggie Smalls said, being broke at 30, give a brother the Chills. And that's where my mind was at. And I was still broke at 30, but I was on my way. I was on my way because I was already in the radio business at that point.

Charlamagne tha God (00:18:21):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:18:22):

And that's what you just described. And I think so many people I've come to believe, and I'd be curious to hear what you think about this, I've come to believe that the single biggest obstacle that actually stands in people's way. And yes, there are big factors around poverty and money and racism and bias and all this stuff, but the biggest obstacle is actually discouragement and despair. The sense that there's nothing you can do.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:18:46):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:18:46):

And I love your story and I love what you stand for because you time and time and time again have made a decision how I'm doing things no longer works for me and I don't give a shit what other people are going to think about it. I'm going to figure this out and I don't even have to know how I'm going to change my life or what it's going to look like. I just know I'm not doing it like this anymore. And so you make the decision, you work a bazillion jobs. How the heck do you get into radio? Because I think the other thing that happens for people, and it's probably I can feel so many people sending this episode to their adult kids, listen to this man. How did you go from no experience, a bazillion odd jobs, having been arrested to actually making a break in radio and in the business?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:19:36):

You said a lot of things that just make me really think about that journey. You used the word just now, you said discouragement, right?

 

(00:19:46):

I had a lot of encouragement early on, even though my dad wasn't always doing the right things. And even though he was hard on me, he was always encouraging me to do the right thing. Same thing with my mom. She was an English teacher always encouraging me to do the right thing. So even when I was getting in trouble, I knew that what I was doing wasn't what I was supposed to be doing. So to answer the question, the positive energy that activates constant elevation, I used to want to rap. Most people who come from communities like I come from, when you black and you growing up in a certain environment, the people you see who look like you are usually in entertainment or athletics. I'm only five six, so there wasn't going to be no NBA for me, but as far

 

Mel Robbins (00:20:25):

As you could be a jockey

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:20:26):

Maybe always, my grades was always so bad I could never play football. And so for me, I always wanted to rap because I used to always love storytelling, always loved storytelling. Like I said, my mom was an English teacher. I grew up on the Booker program reading four books a week to get a free pizza. My mom would always tell me to read things that don't necessarily pertain to me. So I grew up reading Mad Judy and Beverly clearly. So I was always in love with storytelling. So I'm in a recording studio, right? Because if you want to be a rapper, you got to be where people are rapping. So I was in this recording studio, two of 'em, actually. One of was called TNT Studios, another one was called Never So Deep Records. And well, the guy who owned Never So Deep Records is a great mentor to me to this day named Dr. Robert Evans.

 

(00:21:08):

But at the studio I met a radio personality named Willie Will, and he worked at Z 93 Jams in Charleston, South Carolina. And I'm a curious person. If I see you doing something positive or doing something that looks cool, I'm going to ask you. And I just asked him, yo, how did you get in the radio? And he said, I got an internship. And I said, what do I got to do to get an internship? He said, go down to the radio station and ask for an internship. And I'm like, it's that easy. I said, I'm not in school or nothing. He was like, so mind you, this is 1998 Charleston, South Carolina. Things were totally different. And that's what I did. I went down to the radio station and I filled out my internship papers and I started as an intern. Literally I was the guy that would drive the radio station vehicle to the concerts or to the different remotes and help them set up their posters and things like that.

 

(00:21:51):

And then that eventually turned into me getting a gig in the promotions department, which is just being a paid intern I was making with $5 an hour or something like that. And then I would always be in the studio with Willie Will and Willie will would bring me on the mic sometime and we'd be talking. And I remember one day, my man, Ron White, who was the music director, still a good friend of mine to this day, he comes to me and he goes, yo, you ever thought about being on the radio? And I'm like, no, but I am now. And so he started putting me on Sunday mornings 11:00 AM to 3:00 PM and they used to do something called voice tracking where you would record your voice and they would air it. And I was too much for Sunday mornings. So they started putting me on Saturday nights seven to 10. It was voice tracked, 10 to midnight. It was live. And that's where the bug bit me. And I was like, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

 

Mel Robbins (00:22:38):

Well, you not only got the bug, you dominate on radio. And I want to read to you some of your words from your book Shook One, which is an incredible book. And there was one passage in particular that I wanted to read to you

(00:23:09):

And you were saying all kinds of crazy stuff about people, and that was kind of the way that people knew you. And you had this epiphany that this is not who you want to be anymore. And so I want to read to you this from page 2 45 of your bestselling book Shook One. For many years I was edgy and risky with my words on my mic. I pushed the envelope on topics like sex. People would listen to me and say, man, charlamagne is wild. There's a reason Rolling Stone called me the Hip hop Howard Stern. Today I have a much different mind state. While I'm always going to be authentic with my life's experiences, I'm embarrassed by things that I've said in the past. There are moments when I just want it all wiped from the internet. I cringe thinking about my daughter watching some of my old clips, but I can't surrender to those fears. I've come to accept that I can't be a prisoner of my past because the truth is largely with the help of therapy. I've evolved a great deal over the past few years. I'm not the same thoughtless instigator I used to be. I'd love to have you share about the decision to make a huge risk in your career because you gain so much fame and influence by going about things a certain way. And then you made a decision, I don't want to do this anymore. What happened? And how have you changed?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:24:30):

Same way that when I was sitting in Monks corner, South Carolina and my father would tell me, if I don't change my lifestyle, I'm going to end up in jail, dead or broke, sitting under the tree and watching people who I loved who made poor choices end up in those circumstances. It's the same thing now, I love hip hop. I love being a hip hop radio personality, but a lot of the hip hop radio personalities that I grew up admiring, there was a glass ceiling and they didn't realize it. And so they thought that they was growing, but they kept hitting their head, kept hitting their head, kept hitting their head. And I'm looking at them now and I'm like, yo, these people are washed. I don't want that to be my life in the future. And that was from a professional level and just from a personal level, it's like, yo, their my daughters know their daddy. They know their daddy is silly. They know their daddy is a very unserious person. But there's just some things that I don't want to have to explain because when I said these things, I was on drugs, I was drunk, I was wilding. I wasn't in the right mind space. But you know what I have learned, Mel, is that you got to love every version of yourself. How

 

Mel Robbins (00:25:38):

The hell do you do that? I mean, come on, now you have to. How do you do? Because every single one of us, the person that is listening right now, can look back at a moment in time and just, you just cringe. You want to erase that person. You just, we beat ourselves up over it. How the hell did you get to a point where you could love every version of yourself?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:25:59):

Because I'm 46 years old this year. I was born in 1,978, so I'll be 47, right? I'll be 47 this year. I know 20-year-old me did not know what 46-year-old me knows. I know 15-year-old me didn't know what 30-year-old me knew. So it's just like, yo, you got to give yourself grace because you just did not know what it is that you know now. So why would you ever beat yourself up for what you did not know?

 

(00:26:25):

And like I said earlier, to me, life is just a process. I don't believe in good or bad. I just believe in everything is just one long process. And there's things that happen for you along the way, not to you. There's things that happen for you along the way, and I accept it all. I accept the good with the bad. And one thing one of my therapists says to me is that you can't have any of your success without having any of your problems. So any problems that I had growing up, any problems that I had when I was young, that all led me to this point where I'm at now. And I go back and I think in my mind I go hug the 8-year-old version of myself. I hug the 16-year-old version of myself. I hug the 20-year-old version of myself. I have conversations with those other versions of myself all the time. You

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:16):

Do tell me how do you do that? Can

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:27:19):

You believe we can you believe we're here? Can you believe we got here? Yo man, I'm glad 25-year-old you decided to go this way. I'm glad 19-year-old you decided to get in the radio. I'm glad you read all of those books when 8-year-old, you, 9-year-old, you 10-year-old, you read all of those books when you was younger. I know you and your pops had some issues, man, but he did give you the autobiography of Malcolm X when you was very, very young. And it taught you all about growth and evolution and knowing that somebody like Malcolm Little can become this great individual like Malcolm X and introduce you to the nation of Islam where they took the worst of us and made them the best of us. So you got to give every single version of yourself Grace, like Marty McFly didn't go back into the future, go back into the past and cursed his parents out, tried to help his parents, help his parents get on the correct path. We have to do the same thing with ourselves. You got to give every version of yourself that ever existed. Grace,

 

Mel Robbins (00:28:15):

One of the most beautiful things that you have said so far, and you've said a lot of things that are very beautiful and empowering and important, but I really want to make sure that the person listening takes this and applies it. You literally just said, you got to give yourself grace. Why on earth would you punish yourself now for things you didn't know back then?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:28:40):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:28:41):

What a beautiful gift you can give to yourself. And I also love how I'm starting to read between the lines that you're also extending it to other people in your life.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:28:50):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:28:51):

That we need to be able to extend that grace to people in our lives and stop punishing them now for the things that they didn't know back then. I'm curious, as you sort of have this transformation in your mind that is both business, I see that there's a ceiling to this shtick, and also as a person, I just don't want to operate like this anymore. When you started to transform yourself on air, did you have any anxiety at all about how the dedicated huge hip hop audience, fan base that you had built would be receiving you?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:29:23):

Not really, because I know that we're a smart community. I grew up listening to Public Enemy, grew up listening to Wu-Tang clan. I grew up listening to Scarface and Killer Mike, and all of those brothers always had things in their music of socially redeeming value. So I know who are. I just think that sometimes there's people in our community that got to have the courage to grow up. I always say that the two greatest hip hop albums, well, the two most important hip hop albums in the future, people are going to look back and they're going to say, Jay-Z 4, 4 4, and Kendrick Lamar, Mr. Morale in the Big Stepper. Because if you listen to the content of those records, Jay-Z's talking about the maturation of a man. He's talking about not cheating on his wife anymore. He's talking about issues with his father. He's talking about going to therapy on that album.

 

(00:30:13):

I remember hearing that album on my third. It came out the day after my 39th born day. Literally, I was on a roof in New York, just turned 39, midnight hit me, and my wife were leaving, and I put it on in the car, and it was like he was talking to me in that moment. That was the soundtrack for my life right then and there where I was in my life therapy, dealing with issues with my pops, being faithful to my wife, being apologetic for the things I've done to my wife, the cheating on my wife. That was mind blowing to me. And I was like, oh, okay. God, I see exactly what you're doing. Kendrick Lamar, you listening to his album, Mr. Morale in the Big Stepper, he's talking about yo, his wife is on this saying, yo, you really need to go seek some therapy. He's got this song on there called Father Time where he talks about his issues with his dad. Men don't talk about that. It's always, when it comes to daddy issues, you think women, but know the daddy issues that you have as a man are real too. So it's like I knew we were beyond ready for these conversations because these conversations were already happening in our community. They were just being done in secret. When I put out that book Shook One, it came out in 2018, and I remember it was the week of Thanksgiving 2018.

 

(00:31:27):

I'm home in South Carolina, and my dad calls me and my dad is like, yo, man, I just finished reading your book, shook one. He goes, your cousin just committed suicide. He was 25 years old. Young man tried to complete suicide four times. He used to do a lot of odd jobs with my father. And my father was like, yeah, man. Between that and your book, I just wanted to tell you, man, I was going to therapy two and three times a week, and I tried to commit suicide 30 plus years ago, and I was on 10 to 12 different medications for my mental health. And I'm like, I never knew any of this. And so I remember asking my mom like, mom did. Dad was dealing with all of this. And my mom was like, I thought he was just playing crazy to get a check, but he really was dealing with his own issues. And he never told me this, but imagine if he would've told me this when I was young. I would've knew what those panic attacks were. I would've knew what those bouts of depression were, but he never ever told me any of those things. So I think our community has always been ready for these conversations, hip hop community, the black community. It just takes somebody to have the courage to speak.

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:36):

Well, you wrote about that realization in your latest book, and I want to go back though to what you said. You were talking about how it was 2018. People talk openly now about anxiety and depression, and you have done extraordinary work in terms of de-stigmatizing those topics. And one of the things that I'm curious about is how the hell did you even know that you were having anxiety or struggling with depression? Because you're right, it was not talked about openly. You wouldn't be caught dead walking into a self-help aisle, and most people didn't even understand the signs of anxiety or depression. So how the hell in 2007, 2016, did you realize that this is something you were dealing with?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:33:21):

Conversations with other people, talking to other people, and I always credit folks like Neil Brennan, my young guy, Pete Davidson, who's been going to therapy for a long time. Women in my life like Debbie Brown, who was just an amazing spiritual leader's, been a long time friend of mine for almost 20 years. These were people who I always heard having these conversations. And when I was still dealing with the anxiety and still dealing with the depression, even though I was supposed to be at the greatest point in my life, I was making more money than I've ever had in my life and I'm having more success than ever. But the panic attacks were increasing and the bouts of depression was still increasing. Plus I knew I wasn't really living the life I was supposed to be living. I was out here being the hip hop rock star, so I wasn't doing right by my wife. All of these things were coming down on me, and I remember just saying to myself, I'm going to try therapy. I'm just going to try it. Me and my wife had a conversation. She was like, go. And so I just started going, and then that's when I started to get the language to understand what I was dealing with in regards to anxiety, in regards to depression. But anybody who's first started therapy nose, you go for one of two things and you start peeling back layers and unearthing traumas that you didn't even know existed

Charlamagne tha God (00:35:21):

What

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:21):

Trauma is and how widespread it is in people's lived experiences.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:35:25):

Trauma is things that have happened well to me, things that have happened to you, and when those things happen to you, you just let it fester. You don't actually try to get any healing for it. And what we don't realize is trauma hurts you and hurt people, hurt people. So it's just like when you go out there and you deal with your actual issues, you start projecting that level of healing onto people. You can only meet people where they are. So if you meet me when I'm a hurt person who's upset because I got molested when I was eight or upset because of how my father used to discipline me or upset because I got beat up when I was 18 years old, 19 years old from running my mouth too much, which I deserved, by the way. But still, it's like you project that onto other people.

 

(00:36:20):

And then what you also realize when you get older is that 99.9% of everything you're dealing with as an adult is a direct reflection or connection to something that happened to you as a child. It's like I'm literally just talking to my inner child every day telling him to calm down, calm down. We know why that is causing you to act that way. And so you got to go deal with your trauma. If not, I've seen a lot of people self-sabotage. I've seen a lot of people self-destruct, turn to drugs, turn to alcohol, or they're just mean nasty, rude people. And that might be kind of worse than the drugs, than alcohol because then people will leave you on an island unto yourself.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:03):

You write about that too. You write in your book, get Honest or Die Lying. When I see folks who are willing to say anything and attack anyone for attention, I just shake my head because I remember that feeling.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:37:14):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:15):

I know that behavior is eating them alive on the inside.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:37:19):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:20):

Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think it is so incredible that you have gotten to the point where you can actually see that kind of behavior in other people with grace and kind of understand what it is. What are you talking about in that section?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:37:34):

It goes right back to what I just said, hurt people, hurt people. I can listen to people say certain things and I'm like, oh, that person is miserable. Because you would never say that about somebody else if you weren't miserable. I mean, I used to always say, Michelle Obama say when they go low, we go high, but sometimes you got to take it to hell with 'em, right? But sometimes if you're willing to take it all the way to hell, what does that say about you? I'll tell you something. I'm saying this, and I haven't shared this with anybody. I came up under Wendy Williams. Wendy Williams was a great mentor of mine, still a friend of mine. Everybody sees the situation that she's in right now. She's able to move around a little bit. And we were out to dinner just what's the day? This Monday? Monday, literally this past Monday. And she said something at dinner, and that was profound and was, we were just talking about just her and the radio and just the way she used to be on the radio and what her future's going to look like, and would she come back and be that same individual? Of course she couldn't be because she's not that person anymore. She's 60 years old now, right?

 

(00:38:48):

But she says something, she said, I think I might be in this situation because of how I used to talk about people. That's what she said. She's trapped in the conservatorship. And I was like, really? I said, what you mean like karma? She said, yeah, just like God. I've never heard Wendy talk like that in my life, but it was just confirmation for me that I made the right choices, made confirmation for me that I had the right understanding of the power of my words and the energy that I was putting out there. And I don't necessarily believe that she's in that situation because of that, but that was what she said. So I tell everybody, all of the podcasters and the YouTubers, the radio personalities, this microphone has a lot of power, and you can cause a lot of hurt, or you can cause a lot of healing with the things that are coming out of your mouth. I would tell you to choose the healing.

 

Mel Robbins (00:39:43):

So I think every single human being has said things that they regret. Since you've done all this work on yourself, and especially in light of what you just shared that Wendy shared with you, have you reflected at all on how your actions in the past or the things that you used to say on the mic have hurt other people?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:40:02):

Oh yeah.

 

Mel Robbins (00:40:03):

Absolutely. How do you process that for yourself?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:40:07):

You got to give yourself grace. I did what I did. I said what I said, I know the mind state that I was in, but I think sometimes we don't think about the mind state. Other people may be in and you don't know how fragile somebody may be and how something you said could have really caused them lifelong trauma or trauma that they're trying to work through. And you get that through conversation. Sometimes people will come up to you and tell you like, yo, you know, really hurt my feelings when you said such and such. And what really started to change, a lot of it for me was when a lot of the young artists started coming on the show

 

(00:40:45):

And the young artists who, I remember somebody like a young thug. I remember a young thug was saying, man, I used to hate when you used to say crazy stuff about me and used to really fuck with me, it used to really bother me. I'm like, why? He's like, because you Charlemagne, my mama and them listening to you and aunts and everybody listening to you, and you don't think about that, right? When you're on the microphone, you don't know these people, but they're humans too. So the same way you might go online and see something somebody says about you that you don't like or you be like, oh, that ain't true. It is the same thing with other humans. So yeah, I do think about that a lot. But once again, I got to give myself grace. I was in survival mode. I tend to forgive people for what they did when they was in survival mode.

 

(00:41:32):

You tend to do a lot of wild things when you're in survival mode. And for me, when I got on Breakfast Club in 2010, I had been fired from radio four different times. That was the seventh radio station I worked at. I had a daughter that was two, three years old. I wasn't going back to Mount Corner, South Carolina. It was by any means necessary. I didn't care what I had to say or who I had to say it to. And it was the same thing when I used to work with Wendy. I was literally just Wendy's attack dog. Wendy bought me there. Wendy knew she was going to make the transition to television, and she didn't want to be the same personality she used to be. So she had me there to literally be an attack dog, literally get her, get 'em, get 'em, literally. And so it's just like, nah, that's not what I wanted for myself.

Charlamagne tha God (00:42:46):

Man, salute. Yachty. Yachty Alba Yachty is a sacred purpose coach Yachty, man, it's funny, me and yacht, it started with face down, ass up,

 

Mel Robbins (00:42:55):

Face down, ass up,

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:42:56):

Face down, ass

 

Mel Robbins (00:42:57):

Up in the grass.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:42:57):

Yes, I know you're thinking about two live crew. But that was the running joke. The running joke was like, yo, go outside. Take your shoes off. Do some grounding. Lay in your backyard. I'm like, lay in my backyard. Like lay down, put your belly on the ground, put your face to the ground. Face down, ass up. I know it sounds crazy, but literally that's what I would go do. And you would be surprised the healing energy that comes.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:20):

What do you feel when you do that? Put me there. Peace.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:43:23):

Peace.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:24):

Do you feel energy come up through the earth from

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:43:26):

Yes. You can literally feel it from the earth. I know when people like, oh, he's a tree hugger. Yeah, and you would be too, if you could just take your shoes off, walk on the ground, put your forehead up against the tree, lean your back against the tree, lay down on your belly. If you want to lay on your back, lay on your back on the ground. Just take a few deep breaths. Look up at the sun. Look up at the sky. Just pray. Just talk to God. And I guarantee you, if you allow yourself no phone, no distractions, I guarantee you, you will feel some type of release.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:59):

Well, what's amazing about that is you're reminding us all of what we know to be true. Because if you think about any experience where you've gone on vacation

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:44:07):

And

 

Mel Robbins (00:44:07):

You've actually had a chance to lay on a beach or to sit down on a trail or to lay down in a park while your kids are swinging and you just take a moment, you feel at peace,

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:44:16):

My favorite thing to do is to be in the water. I feel like the direct connection to God is in the water looking at the sun. So when I'm in the water, I'm looking up at the sun, even Quintin praying, talking to God, telling God what it is that I want, what I'm thankful. A lot of gratitude. Sometimes I don't even ask for nothing. I just go out there and just say, thank you, God, thank you. Gratitude is a lost art. Everybody has this sense of entitlement nowadays. Everybody feels like that. The world is just supposed to open up and give you things. It's like, yo, I'm grateful for every opportunity. I even sitting here on Mel bin show, I'm just like, man, thank you, God. This is a great opportunity. I'm grateful for everything. And when you in that water, looking up at that sun, just expressing gratitude, the peace you feel,

 

Mel Robbins (00:44:59):

If the person that's listening is just at a point in their life where they've got the metal toilet moment and things just feel like it's just gone to hell, made so many mistakes, they don't have the grace yet that you're talking about the fact that you need to extend to yourself. Do you have any suggestions or advice for how you begin that practice of gratitude when you feel like you're just screwed up?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:45:28):

Well, you should say thank you because whatever you're going through things could probably always be worse. And if you don't believe me, just turn the news on, turn the news on. There's somebody going through something right now that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, but that person is actually going through it. So for me, when I find myself in those metal toilet moments, it is just like I'm here. What am I supposed to learn from this moment? Thank you God for the experience of going through it. I'm really big on that. I'm really big on thanking God when things are not necessarily going my way, they're probably going my way. You understand what I'm saying?

 

Mel Robbins (00:46:07):

Well, I have this thing where I feel like you can stand in this moment and you can look backwards in time travel and go, okay, I may not like what I see. I may not have deserved that. It may have been very painful, but I can actually in this moment look backwards and see how everything led me uniquely here.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:46:27):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:46:28):

I think it's an incredible skill in what you're accessing when you are practicing gratitude in the way that you're recommending is you're actually teaching people how to stand in this moment and in the gratitude of Thank you. Even though I don't know where this is leading, you're actually practicing faith because you're saying, I'm grateful because I know it's leading me somewhere that I can't yet see that is meant for me, and I won't get there without this.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:46:53):

That's right. And I'm 46 years old. I've lived enough life to know God has not led me in the wrong direction yet. So whatever moment I'm standing in, I'm supposed to be standing in that moment and I need to deal with it. That's when my wife bought me. The Let Them Theory is because one of the things that I've been just dealing with is just wondering about other people. Meaning

 

Mel Robbins (00:47:18):

What about other people?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:47:21):

I've had different experiences in my life where sometimes people resent me for what I'm actually doing for them.

 

(00:47:27):

Meaning like you can be actually doing good things for a person or have done really good things for a person or provided opportunities for a person, and that person will grow to resent you. I've literally, I've had a friend say to me one time, oh, I don't want to do this deal with you because if I do it, people are going to continue the narrative. I only get things because of you. And I'm like, that's strange. You know what I mean? Because I would love to have a me and I've had a lot of people in my life provide me opportunity. I've had a lot of people in my life get me on the right path or allow me access to things that have gotten me opportunities. So why would you ever feel like I don't care if I'm with one person that's provided me 10 different opportunities, why would that be a thing? And I've had just friends in my life who, regardless of how much I've done for them, they act like nothing. I did nothing. And I'm not even that. I'm not the type person to be like, remember, I did this for you, I did that for you. I just do things. I don't even care. I just feel like that's what you're supposed to do when you're in a certain position. You share the wealth, you share the opportunity. So to find out that that person is like, oh, he don't do nothing for me, and you're like, what? Now you got to run down the list in your mind. Now I got to go in my mind and be like, was I bugging when I did this, this? And to me, that feels cheap to have to do that. But sometimes you got to do that to remind yourself, it's not me, it's this person.

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:02):

And that is data about who this person is and where they are. And so I can see that clearly when I say let them say these things, let them be ungrateful. Let them be so insecure about their own power and success and capability that they're actually threatened by my generosity. Let them be so concerned about what everybody else thinks of them, that they need to distance themselves from me. Because they are clearly insecure about their own power and skill. And so they're trying to manage what other people think.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:49:32):

Can you expound on the threatened by your own generosity?

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:34):

Yeah, of course. So when somebody, I used to be this person, I used to be a person who believed that there was a limited amount of success to go around.

 

(00:49:45):

I used to believe that if Charlemagne were just dominating on radio, there was no room for me because you've already done it. And so if you would extend a hand at first I would be grateful because I would feel seen by somebody that I really respect and I would feel supported. But as I start to build something, I would then have to confront the fact that I'm only in a certain place and now I make a mistake. And instead of seeing you Charlamagne as somebody who's leading the way, somebody who's there as inspiration, somebody that provides a formula, somebody that provides celebration and support and cheerleading and advocacy for you, I make a major mistake because I have a very small mind and I think there's only so much to around. So now I start to see you, the very person that led the way and that cheered for me and that supported me as a person that I'm now against because I now want what you have. And I don't actually see that the world is abundant when it comes to success and money and friendship and love and all and peace and healing. These things are in limitless supply.

 

(00:50:52):

And the only person that can take something that's meant for you is you.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:50:57):

That's it.

 

Mel Robbins (00:50:59):

It's so sad that when people look at the game of life, what happens is everybody has delta hand and some hands suck and some hands are better. That's just how life is. It's not fair. But you don't win the game of cards by staring at the hand that somebody else is holding.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:51:17):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:17):

You win the game of cards by staring at your own hand and figuring out how to play them and how to be a better player. And how do you do that in life? You learn from other people because you and I and you and your friends, you're never playing against each other. You're only always playing with them. And if you are dealing with people in your life that reveal to you after you have supported them, after you've shown up for them, that they are actually just transactional, that's because of their insecurity.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:51:46):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:47):

That's why, and it hurts because you see the potential in other people. And so you give and give and give because that's one of your core values to be of service. But then when somebody starts to turn against you or just all of a sudden is antagonistic toward you, it just feels weird.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:52:07):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:07):

I'm basically saying let them be on their own journey. Let them be very scarce in their mindset. Let them not understand the way that the world works. Let them not understand me and let me give this a little space so that I can give them the grace and dignity of their own experience. But I'm not wasting time and energy managing this person anymore.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:52:28):

That's right. But that shouldn't stop you from being who you are. My niece flew through my niece, Nala Simone, and she says this, and it's very genderless when she says this. She was like, you like to save hoes? Stop trying to save these hoes. Right? And I can't stop being me, meaning that God's not

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:45):

Going well. You can save hoes all you want. Just don't expect them to become a church lady.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:52:49):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:51):

They may become one.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:52:52):

Yes, they might

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:53):

Be. They may.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:52:54):

So, but I'm saying God's not going to judge me based off how people treat me. He's going to judge me based off how I treat people.

 

Mel Robbins (00:53:00):

Right. And here, this is where the power comes because I want to give you this. So the let them theory. The first part is let them, because that's where you actually recognize. You can't control what another person is going to do with the support that you give. You cannot control that. Your control is never in what other people are doing. And we waste all our time and energy worrying about what people think and say and do and how they act. And we have expectations and we have to learn to just let other adults be who they are and be who they're not. And what these people in your life are showing you is they are not abundant people. They're not secure. And so when you lift somebody up, and you've already talked about this, if they have not done the internal work, you can lift them up on the outside, but you're still dragging up the devil inside 'em, right?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:53:46):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:53:46):

And so we tend to attack the very thing that could actually help us. And as you're lifting up somebody to a different level and they have not done the internal work to be at that level, they will literally turn against the person that lifted them up. It's because of insecurity. And so you've got to let them reveal who they are at their core and how they're going to react to your generosity. Then you go to the, let me part me remind myself, I actually always have control because I get to choose how much time and energy I put into this relationship moving forward. And your power is in your values. You give because you are a generous person. You give because you believe in lifting people up. You give because you believe God is in all things and you're grateful for all things. So that is how you show up. That will never change. But people will reveal that they are not in that same energy space as you. And then that's just data. Let them so you can better protect your time and energy, but don't stop giving.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:54:51):

That is a fact

 

Mel Robbins (00:54:51):

Just not to them.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:54:52):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (00:54:53):

Is that helpful?

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:54:53):

That is beyond helpful, beyond helpful because I'm, I'm the type person. I feel like if anything you build only benefits you, it's not big enough. So I'm never going to stop being of service to people. But what you said is absolutely true. Once you get that data and you know who a person is, whether to pull away or how much to give or not to give at all anymore.

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:15):

Exactly. Exactly. That's all that it is. It's actually, you know how you talk about gratitude. Thank you,

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:55:20):

Thank you

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:21):

Thank you for revealing.

 

Charlamagne tha God (00:55:23):

Thank you.

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:23):

How you actually feel now I can protect my time and energy. So in your book, get Honest or Die Lying, you talk about how much you hate small talk.