Episode: 268
How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over
a Solo Episode
Big Tech is hijacking your brain. This episode shows you how to steal it back.
Big Tech is hijacking your brain—this episode shows you how to steal it back.
Your phone is stealing your time and hijacking your brain. In this episode, Mel exposes how Big Tech uses your attention for profit, and how to break free.
Learn why you feel drained after scrolling, why it’s so hard to stop, and what it’s doing to your motivation.
With insights from psychiatrist Dr. Alok Kanojia (Dr. K), you’ll get research-backed tools to reclaim your focus, reset your brain, and take back control of your life and you can start right now.
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Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:00:00):
Have you ever thought to yourself, gosh, I wish I wasn't on my phone so much. I wish I wasn't constantly wasting time scrolling. The research shows that the average person in the United States is spending seven hours a day consuming media on your phone seven hours a day. It has snuck up on you and it did it on purpose. But here's the problem. If you don't understand that, you're supposed to use this as a tool, you become the tool. So if you're ready to stop letting your brain be hijacked by big tech and by your phone, then you are in the right place because I'm about to change the way you see the world.
(00:00:46):
Hey, it's friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're here and I'm also so excited about the conversation today. This is a topic I am absolutely passionate about. I have so much to share with you, to teach you, to have You just really, it's the kind of conversation that just makes you look at the world and what's possible differently. And so lemme just start by saying thank you for being here. It is always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together. And if you are a new listener, I also want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I am glad that you're here and because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. Even though we may not have met in real life yet, I know that you're the kind of person who probably doesn't have a lot of free time, but you've made time to listen to this because you value how you spend your time.
(00:01:45):
And that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about time and we're going to talk about a particular kind of laying on it. That's really important. See you and and every single person that you know is screwing themselves over right now when it comes to time, when it comes to energy, when it comes to attention. And there's a reason why we keep doing this to ourselves and here's why. It's because you don't realize that the world that you now live in and big tech and in particular, lemme grab my phone right now, I'm going to grab my phone, that your phone is now designed for a singular purpose. You ready? It is designed to steal your time and attention. Yeah, yeah. Everybody can market everything about connection and all the wonderful things about your phone and the internet and social media.
(00:02:41):
And it's true. There's a lot of wonderful things about your phone. But the number one thing that this phone is designed to do is it is designed to steal your time and attention. And this is a really big deal. By the time you and I are done talking today, you will never actually look at your phone the same way again. And this is important because you do need to change the way that you look at your phone. I'm going to explain that the world and tech and the phone and social media, holy cow, in the last five years, it is completely changed and you and I need to have a huge wake up call because when I paint the picture of what this phone is actually designed to do, it's going to change your motivation for how you use it and when you use it. And I've been talking about this topic, it's called the Attention Economy. For years, I mean, I've been traveling the world. You and I may just be kind of getting to know each other through the Mel Robbins podcast, but
Mel Robbins (00:03:47):
For almost a decade, I spent most of my career traveling around the world and speaking at huge events being put on by some of the biggest brands in the world, talking about all kinds of things from behavior change to motivation. And a really big topic has been understanding the way that technology and the phone in particular is designed to steal your attention and your focus. Because you and I now live in what's called the attention economy. And this is important for you to understand. It's important for your middle schoolers to understand, for your high schoolers for the 20 somethings. Heck, if you've got aging parents that are now addicted to their iPad or their phone, it's important for them to understand we live in a whole new world.
(00:04:36):
We live in what's called the attention economy. Now what does that mean? Here's what it means. It means your attention is for sale. That the time that you spend watching media, scrolling through your phone, tapping on certain things, buying things that you don't need, that everybody is making money off of your attention and your time that you don't have to get on your phone and buy something for people to make money. You simply sitting on your phone and mindlessly scrolling and having it on. People have figured out how to make money with you simply having the phone on. And so takeaway number one is that your phone is designed to steal your attention for one reason and one reason only because people are making money on you. It's that simple. They're making money on you. And I'm going to unpack this in detail so that you really understand what your phone is, what it isn't, and that from this point forward, even if you're in middle school and you're listening to me or you're 80 years old and you're listening to me, or you're 50 years old and you're frustrated because you can't get your family to just connect over dinner because everybody's on their phone.
(00:06:08):
Well, the reason why this is true is because the phone is designed to keep you on it. That's what you have to understand, that the rules have fundamentally changed and not enough of us are talking about it. I didn't figure this out until a couple of years ago when I started looking into the research around focus and attention, and I started folding in information about the attention economy and the way that the phones are designed because I started to feel concerned about my own use on the phone. I started to be frustrated with the fact that my kids were so on their phones all the time. It's like, what's going on with this generation? And then I started to feel frustrated about the fact that everybody around me's constantly on their phones and myself included. And see, here's the thing, I think you've had that experience, haven't you?
(00:06:57):
Where it's not good for you, you know, don't want to spend as much time on it. You know that when you're off your phone, you feel better, you're happier, you're more well rested. We also know the simple stupid advice for how it is that we can stop using it so much, and yet none of us do it. And so I started to wonder, well, why is it so hard? There must be something going on. The truth is, yeah, there is something going on and this is going to be a huge thing. You've already learned one takeaway so far, which is you now live in the attention economy. Your phone is designed to keep you on it because even if it's just open, people have figured out how to make money with you just turning this thing on and having it in your hand. I mean, this is no joke.
(00:07:39):
And that's why we're going to unpack the way that the world has changed and what's happened with the phone and how tech is designed and how social media is designed and how ads are designed and how headlines are written. They are specifically designed to screw you over to have you just casually turn over your most precious thing in life, which is your time and your attention. Where you put your time is what your life is. And you don't probably know this, your kids don't know this. The young adults in your life don't know this. Your parents don't know this, and that's why you're frustrated. I was frustrated too. The research around this is kind of crazy. Did you realize that you're probably spending seven hours a day consuming media on your phone? And if you were just like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. Yeah, you are.
(00:08:34):
Is your phone on you? Do you look at it throughout the day? Every time you turn it on, you're activating the phone's ability to make money on you. Even simply if it's tracking you, guess what? There are companies making money on the data that's tracking you and listening to you as you have it near you, even if you're not directly consuming media. That's what I'm talking about. And so if you've ever had that thought, boy, I wish I would just spend less time on my phone, or I wish I wasn't wasting hours scrolling on social media. Or how about this? Do you feel like you're constantly buying things that you didn't actually mean to buy? The thing that's laying around downstairs that I can't find the actual company to be able to return the thing to is I bought a bunch of those bird feeders that have the little camera in them.
(00:09:34):
They were all over my Instagram feed. Oh my god, I've got two extra ones here. I don't even remember buying them probably because I bought it one night while I was scrolling through Instagram and the phone was on. And I even know that it is the attention economy and I still succumb to it. And the reason why I wanted to talk to you about this is because this is a really big deal. The research shows that the average person in the United States, based on the devices themselves, is spending seven hours a day consuming media on your phone seven hours a day, that's 59 hours a week, 59 hours just looking at your TV and your phone. You got to be very careful about the addictive nature of this fricking device and how people are using you because when you wake up and are like, wait a minute, I'm getting used, then I think you're going to have a different level of motivation around your boundaries with this phone.
(00:10:34):
And so first things first, we're going to spend a lot of time talking about what is it about the attention economy and the way that this thing is designed that has changed? What do you need to know? Because when you look at the world differently, I think you show up to the world differently. And if you find that you keep thinking, God, I wish I would spend less time on my phone, or your kids are like, I wish I spent less time on my phone, but you just can't. For example, have you ever deleted TikTok and then you just download YouTube or then you delete YouTube and then you download TikTok again? If you have been the kind of person, have you ever set limits on your apps and then you just tap out of the notification guilty? Or if you can't watch TV while not also scrolling on Instagram, I mean, this is something we're all struggling with and you're struggling with it not because you're weak, you're struggling with it because that's a sign that the phone is winning.
(00:11:32):
The phone is winning the game. The phone is changing your brain. The phone is getting you to just step right into the trap so that it can make money on you mindlessly. If you can't stand in a line at a grocery store or do chores or take a walk or even go to the bathroom without watching a video or listening to something, reading something on your phone, then you're in the right place. And I just want to ask you five questions, okay? Five questions that reveal the truth that technology has won this round of the game because the way that the phone and social media is engineered and the way that people make money on your attention, it has changed you.
Mel Robbins (00:12:21):
So let me ask you these five questions. Number one, is your phone the first thing you reach for every day? Do you ever find yourself checking the same apps over and over and over again for notifications even though there aren't any? Are you unable to sit, take a walk, do chores or even exist without consuming content, watching a video, checking a text, looking for something? Does the idea of going somewhere without your phone make you anxious or uncomfortable? And finally, do you find yourself getting to the end of a long day using doom, scrolling as just a way to unwind and relax only to find that you feel exhausted, depressed, or empty afterwards? If you answered yes to any of these five questions, this is a sign that the phone and social and big tech has actually won this round of the game. I want to be very clear about something. This isn't your fault. It's not your fault if you're frustrated, like I was frustrated with my family. I'm like, why are you guys always on your phone? Look at me when you're talking to me. What's wrong with this generation?
(00:13:48):
If you've ever felt that way, it's not their fault either. It's not your teenager's fault that they're constantly online. They need to be on social media. They're constantly wanting to do something. It's not your fault if all you want to be in life is an influencer because that's what you see other people doing online and you see them making money and you see them going on trips. And heck, even your aging parents are now addicted to their phones and their iPads, and it's not their fault either. Not at all. See, we have all been duped by the big tech programming and the attention economy that we live in, your phone, social media, the news cycle, everything about the role that technology is playing in your life right now, accept this fact. It has not been designed for an altruistic reason. It has been designed to hijack your brain.
(00:14:51):
It is designed to steal your attention. And see, the reality is that you and I have been tricked into participating in and being used for a game that you and I didn't even know we were playing. You and I look at the phone and we're like, oh, this is great. This is really great. I love this. I can connect with people and I post and it is great. But if you don't realize that you've been lured into something for the sole purpose that you might buy something or that you might stay a little longer so that somebody can make money on you, then you are stepping into a game and you will always lose. And I'm going to give you a couple examples. So have you ever gotten off an airplane and you get off an airplane, especially if you land in a new country or you're going somewhere where there's Orlando, you're going to go to Disney World.
(00:15:47):
When you get off that plane, they purposefully move you through a section of the airport where there's all kinds of stuff to buy, and the hallways are really little. So all you do is see stuff to buy. And here's another example. Have you ever been to a museum? And when you get out of the exhibit, where do they put you? They put you in the gift store and they don't just put you in the gift store by the exit, they force you to walk through the whole thing and see all this kind of stuff. Why are they doing that? They're doing that because they're trapping you in a place where they have your attention in the hopes that if they put stuff in front of you, you're going to buy it. And the longer that you stay in there, which is why it takes a long time to walk through it.
(00:16:30):
Who else does this? A Kia, have you ever tried to get out of an I Kia store for crying out loud quickly? You can't. They make you literally walk two miles through every single display. Why? Because they're trying to hold your attention. The longer that you're in there, the more likely you're going to see something that you buy. The more time that you spend in there, the more money they make. And they're not doing this because they're mean. They're doing this because they're a for-profit company. The same thing is true about the phone. And that's why number one, my number one goal today, there's a number of things I want to teach you, is I want you to wake up and understand that if you don't see the game, you don't understand the rules, you're going to lose the game full stop.
(00:17:21):
That's why you're screwing yourself over. It's because you don't understand the larger context of your phone and headlines. That's why they're sensational. I mean, that's why the news reads like the world is falling apart. Because if you think it's scary, if you're worried and your emotions start to get all jacked up, you are more likely to click. That's why the world and the internet and social media, they're designed on purpose to steal your attention. And that's why we have gotten to a point in the world where we are all losing the game of attention. And you lose first and foremost by not even realizing that you're actually playing a big game. And here's the thing I should say right off the bat, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this because on one hand, I do believe that the phone and internet and social media, these are extraordinary tools.
(00:18:27):
They are extraordinary tools to connect, to share your art, to market your business, to be self-expressed. They're extraordinary tools to get information, to learn to grow. You can connect with people all around the world. I mean, they are incredible. The reason why I can connect with you right now from above my garage in southern Vermont, you're maybe halfway around the world, is because of technology, because of the phone, because of the internet, because of social media. So yes, they are extraordinary tools, but only if you use it as a tool, right? See, it's a great tool. If every time you reach for this, you recognize you are the one who's using it intentionally as a tool. And here's the problem. The problem is you and I became the tool.
(00:19:39):
We weren't paying attention. We were busy living our lives. We were enjoying laughing about the things that we saw on the internet. And slowly what started to happen is we started spending more and more and more time on our phones. I mean, just to put this in perspective, the first iPhone was released in 2007. So we're talking almost 20 years ago. And over the years when this first thing started, and we all had it for the first five, 10 years, whatever, it wasn't on your person all the time. You weren't texting all the time, you weren't on social media all the time, but something kind of creepy has happened over the last couple years. Absolutely. Everybody is on their phone all the time. It's like some sort of addictive substance has been pumped into the oxygen that we're all breathing. And now we're all like, oh, well wake up.
(00:20:42):
Look at the phone, always look at the phone. I got to have the phone. We're all it. And so today, I really want to share all this information with you and you can tell that I'm very passionate about this. I'm passionate about it because everybody is quick to go. Social media sucks. The internet sucks, big tech sucks. And on some level you're right, it does. But part of the problem is simply blaming social media and blaming the internet and blaming the phone. It doesn't highlight what's actually going on. And I said that I had mixed feelings about this. I do see the good, I see the good that the phone and the internet and connection and social media and videos and information and tools that are powered by ai, I see the good. But here's the problem. If you don't understand that you're supposed to use this as a tool, you become the tool.
(00:21:50):
You become a tool in a larger game that big tech built that the internet is fueling, and it is a game that is built, designed and it is engineered to make you lose. I literally look at the phone and I'm like, okay, it's like the Hunger Games and I'm the tribute that's volunteered, and I'm now stepping into the arena anytime I pick this up and it's a fight for my life. And if you don't understand this, you're literally screwing yourself over. It's like walking into the Hunger Games arena thinking that you're just kind of going on a camping trip. No, you're not. Like seeing what it is is the most important way to protect yourself seriously. I want you to look at your phone and go, oh my gosh, I'm stepping into the Hunger Games arena right here, and only one person is going to get out alive. It's either me or it's the billion people that are inside this arena that are trying to claw for my attention. And I want to paint it in such dramatic ways because have you ever stopped and considered that this device is using you?
(00:23:26):
That it is a device that uses you, it listens to you, it follows you, it dynamically changes what it shows you, it is constantly pushing stuff in your face to click on or to purchase or to watch. And why is it doing that? I'll tell you why. Because there's money to be made on you. And so I want you to be very clear that every time you pick this thing up that you are stepping into the hunger game ring. That's what's happening. And if you pick up the device with eyes wide open, guess what happens? You're no longer the tool. You're no longer the one that is going to lose. You are picking up this device knowing full well what you're walking into, and you are going to be smart about what you use this for rather than allowing it to use you, which is what's happened. And I think this is why when we look at everybody around us, we get so frustrated because you can see that your kids and your partner and your roommates, they've all turned into zombies. I mean, how many times have you been sitting around with your friends from college and everybody's on their phone and you're thinking, why do we even get together this weekend if we're all just going to sit around on our phones?
(00:25:02):
Well, that can end now. It can end now. Because what you're seeing when you see people zoning out is you're seeing that the attention economy has won. You're seeing that they've stepped into the arena and they're losing the game. You're seeing that the intentional design of the phone is actually winning. And that's one of the reasons why I think it's so important to call out the fact that this is all by design and it's all based for money. That's what it's for. And the reason why this is important is because I think it's easy to aim your frustration at your kids or to aim it at other people or to aim it at your partner that you're frustrated that they're always on their phone and they're never present with you. Well, the fact is they're losing a game that they don't even realize they're playing.
(00:25:52):
And I want you to start there because blaming other people and being upset with them isn't going to solve the problem. Understanding the larger context is the first step to going and looking at your phone and be like, Ooh, ick. How cool would it be if you had the ick about your phone?
Mel Robbins (00:26:10):
Technology and social media and the phone and internet and ai, all this stuff is a wonderful thing if you understand it's meant to be used as a tool, but if you don't understand the larger context that I'm painting for you, that your phone is designed to make money off of you and it makes more money off of you, the longer you spend on it, if you don't understand that, then you are going to lose. And this isn't just social media. I mean, this is happening with AI too. And what's kind of about this is let me tell you some of the lies that are happening with AI right now.
(00:26:48):
I think this is kind of scary. I literally was talking with my team the other day and I don't even remember what we were talking about. Oh, I guess if you Google my name, which I don't do, but if you Google, is Mel Robbins divorced, right? Go to Google and you go, is Mel Robbins divorced? Do you know? You know how when you Google something now AI generates a answer. And what's scary about AI is that it's generating answer from stuff that's out on the internet. And since there's no internet police, the amount of random, disgusting, horrible lies that are out on the internet about everybody and everything, it's kind of terrifying. And now we're stepping into a world where we think chat GTP is right. We think open AI is giving us the best answer. No, no, no, no. They're just aggregating what's out there and serving up something. So if you go and you type in is Mel Robbins divorced? AI is going to tell you I'm divorced.
(00:28:00):
It literally says Mel Robbins is divorced. And then you want to know what it does. It serves up a link to a podcast episode of my podcast where I am giving someone advice who is going through a divorce. So AI has aggregated information that's out there, randomly assembled it and served it up as the truth about me. It's not true. It's not true. Anybody can make up anything about anybody and it's now out there. And so I say this because you have to understand, and I have very mixed feelings about technology, about the internet, and one of the reasons why I am so successful is because I understand technology. I use it as a tool, and I have also become more successful in having boundaries with my phone, not because I'm reading research reports and not because I'm doing the things that the experts tell us to do.
Mel Robbins (00:29:06):
I have better boundaries with my phone because I understand the manipulative nature of the attention economy and the way that this phone and the internet is programmed to keep you sucked into it because the longer you spend on it, the more money some stranger makes off of you. It's true. It's absolutely true. And so if you want to spend seven hours a day consuming things on your device, just be clear. Somebody is making a ton of money on you and you are telling yourself that you're just wasting time. Nope. You're not just wasting time, you're actually making people money because that's what this is really about. The more time you spend on social media, the more money big tech and influencers make. And I'm going to tell you something else. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. This is sort of like saying to somebody, it's your fault that you're addicted to cigarettes.
(00:30:12):
No, it's not. You had an addictive substance marketed to you as if it was going to improve your life. It looks like fun and now you feel bad because you can't stop smoking even though you don't really enjoy it and you've got this horrible cough and you got all these people judging you because you're still doing it and you feel ashamed of it, but it's not your fault. It's designed to be addictive. Same thing with alcohol. Alcohol is marketed to you and me as if it's required for a celebration as if it does make your life better. And so if you have trouble cutting back or having just one drink or drinking less, that's not your fault. The substance and the industry has designed it that way so that you keep doing it. And when you start from that level that it's actually not your fault, now you have a fighting chance to look at this device and to look at the way that you consume media with very black and white eyes. And so the more time you spend on social media, the more money big tech and influencers make. So let me just ask you a couple of questions. When's the last time you saw posts that were of your friends on Instagram? For real? When's the last time?
(00:31:37):
If you're like me, I never see my friends or my kids online ever. And I've even gone and kind of clicked them as my close friends, which I thought meant I would see them more. No, you know what I see? I see ads. Almost every other thing that comes in my feed is a suggested for you. So it's something getting served up or it's a shop now. And then what ends up happening, and it might happen to you because you're listening to this podcast and you may follow me online, and if you do follow me and you happen to watch one reel, it's going to happen. They're going to keep serving up my content to you. Why? Because the machines that are trying to keep you on it, remember you're in the hunger Games. Remember, you're in the arena. They're going to serve up more of the things that I make to you because they now think you like it.
(00:32:31):
And within a week you're going to start going, God, does Mel ever sleep? I mean, it's like all I see is her all over. Well, that is the arena because it's trying to keep you on it. This to me is manipulation. If this were an altruistic platform, you know what social media would do? It would just show you what people post in a linear timeline when they post it, and it would show you just as many posts from the rock as it shows you your friends and family. But see, that's why I'm trying to tell you. You're the tool. You and I go onto the phone and we think, oh, I'm going to go on social media and just pass a little bit of time and I'm going to have some fun. Be careful. You can certainly do that, but this is going to try to manipulate you.
(00:33:20):
It is just like being in Vegas. If you've ever been in a casino in order to get to any of the restaurants or to get to the elevators, what do you have to do? You have to walk through the casino and what is in the casino? It's bright lights, it's bells, it's whistles, it's all this stuff trying to manipulate you so that you engage with it. See, whenever you're bored, now you pick up your phone whenever the movie's not that interesting, you pick up your phone whenever the teacher in front of the class isn't saying something that interesting. You look at your phone when you're lying in bed and you're having trouble going to sleep, you look at your phone. If you're sitting at a stoplight, you're looking at your phone. Heck, if you're honest with yourself, you're probably looking at it as you're driving, as you're sitting on an airplane, you're looking at the phone as you're sitting in a meeting, you've got your phone beneath the table and you're checking it out every once in a while, once it has snuck up on you and it did it on purpose.
(00:34:27):
And that's why I need you and me and everybody that you care about that you're going to send this to actually wake up and recognize that this is not here because it wants to help you. It's here to make money on you. The sad thing about the time that we live in right now is I feel like everything's that way. Politics. Politics is now entertainment headlines same way. The scarier it is, the more you're going to keep checking them. And if you want to see how much of a tool you've become, just check your screen time, not even as a way to make you wrong. But see, I don't think any of us realize how this has crept up on us. And after just considering that you live in the attention economy and considering that everything is designed to keep you on it so that they make, you got to recognize that because the rules have changed.
(00:35:41):
You got to change your rules with how you play the game and you got to see it for what it is. And you got to take your power back and you got to go, ick, I'm not going to be an idiot. I'm not going to allow them to just keep me trapped in this stuff. So they make money, I'm going to get in and then I'm going to get out. And that's how I think about this. How can I use this device and social media and the internet to actually help me achieve my goals? How can I use this as a tool as it's designed to be used to benefit me instead of me being the tool and my use of it benefiting them? Do you see what I'm saying? Being smarter about it allows you to change how you engage with it. And that's why I want you to think about this because that brings me to the second really important thing about understanding that you live in the attention economy.
(00:36:33):
Your attention and time is for sale, and the world is designed to steal it from you. That's why you're tired. That's why you spend too much time on your phone. That's why you spend too many evenings just mindlessly watching one thing after the other thing because the game is designed for you to lose. So now that you accept that, and I hopefully have given you the ugh factor and I've woken you up to the fact that you do have power, these are amazing tools. You got to step into the arena, get what you need and then get out. The second thing I really want to highlight for you and for everybody that you're going to share this with is that there's a huge cost to playing the game, a huge cost. And
Mel Robbins (00:37:18):
The thing that you're about to hear, because I wanted an expert to explain this to you because when I heard this from a guy by the name of Dr K, he goes by the healthy gamer online. He is a Harvard trained psychiatrist who specializes in gaming addiction, and he's also a neuroscientist and psychiatrist who has taught me more about the circuitry in the brain and motivation in a way that I truly understand better than anybody else that I've ever met or read or studied in my entire life.
Dr. Alok Kanojia (00:37:50):
What a lot of people don't realize is that you have a certain capacity for pleasure and behavioral reinforcement. When you wake up in the morning, you have only a certain number of units of pleasure and behavioral reinforcement.
Mel Robbins (00:38:03):
Got it. So if I have a cup of capacity for both pleasure and behavioral reinforcement, you're saying that when you wake up, that one cup is
Dr. Alok Kanojia (00:38:14):
Already full. So our dopaminergic circuitry in the brain in this part called the nucleus accumbens, basically this is what gives us a sense of pleasure and also reinforces our behavior. The problem with dopamine is we wake up in the morning and our dopaminergic stores are full. What happens is we have a reserve of dopamine, and if you want something with delayed gratification and your dopamine stores are high, you can work a lot. But then when you get the payoff, since you have a bunch of dopamine, you get a strong dopamine release and then you feel really good. So the way that this works is like I want y'all to think about this. Let's say I wake up first thing in the morning and then I work for four hours, and then what is the subjective reward that I feel after four hours of work? It's really positive. Then if I use technology for four hours, it's kind of whatever. But if I use technology for the first four hours of the day and then I try to go and do work, you're not going to, you're not going to. And even if you finish the same amount of work, you will not experience the same level of pleasure because your dopamine has literally been depleted. Got it. So the way that I kind of described this is imagine that you have a lemon that is full of juice.
(00:39:26):
So at the very beginning when it's full of juice, a small squeeze gets you a lot of juice, but by the end, you have to squeeze a lot to get very little juice. This is how dopamine is in our brain.
Mel Robbins (00:39:36):
So in other words, if you tap into technology and it invades your circuitry in your brain, it literally is like squeezing most of the juice out of the lemon first thing in the morning, first thing in the morning. And then that means that it's also going to impact your ability to do the work or to focus or to feel joy and all those things that normally if you did those things first, you'd feel a sense of reward and joy for
Dr. Alok Kanojia (00:40:02):
Yes. So technology is like a hard squeeze. So if we use it first thing in the morning, we squeeze the lemon really hard and we get all the juice out, and then you have nothing left to feel good about because all of your dopamine stores have been depleted.
Mel Robbins (00:40:16):
I want to make sure that you really understand the weight of what Dr. K is trying to teach you in me, because when he shared that with me, it was such an enormous wake up call that really helped me connect the dots. And the whole purpose of our conversation today is to give you a reason why you need better boundaries with your phone and tech, that you have to use it as a tool and you've got to stop allowing big tech and social and the phone to turn you into the tool. And so what Dr. K has said is that you've got all of this dopamine reserve and dopamine circuitry in your brain, and you've probably heard that word, but I dunno if you're like me, I'm constantly forgetting what these big words mean. But dopamine is related to your drive, it's related to motivation, it's related to pleasure.
(00:41:23):
And what Dr. K is saying is that when you wake up first thing in the morning, you're ready to go. The gas tank in the brain in terms of dopamine, it's full. The circuitry is ready to go. It is primed and there to help you experience pleasure, to help you move toward things that give you meaning in your life. And then you and I make a really dumb mistake because we don't recognize the game that we're in. We make this mistake first thing in the morning of picking up the phone, and then we get on social media and then we read the headlines. And when you step into that arena in the words of Dr. K technology in the phone and social media, it's like taking the lemon that represents the dopamine and squeezing all the juice out so that by the time you start your day, if you've spent too long on your phone, you've literally drained the dopamine tank simply by stepping into the arena and allowing yourself to be turned into a tool.
(00:42:33):
And now for the rest of the day, you're playing catch up. This is why everything seems dull. This is why you don't really feel the drive. This is why your mood is kind of low and you're a little numb. And this also then means that at the end of the day when you're done at school or you're done at work and you get home and you're done feeding the dogs and making dinner, and you collapse on the couch, all you want to do because you've got no dopamine left and you're not really feeling much of anything and you're exhausted is what? Pick this thing up again and you enter the arena and you make people more money and then you just feel worse. And I want to give you a little test to really just highlight for you why the phone is designed the way it's designed.
Mel Robbins (00:43:20):
Have you ever turned your phone to the gray scale feature? It's pretty unbelievable. When you move your phone to grayscale, it is going to be so startling that you don't even need to hear research about this. But I do have research and this research is unbelievable. There was this study done between Cornell and researchers at IE University in Madrid, all about grayscale. When people like you and me just switch the phone to black and white and grayscale, it reduces your daily screen time by 50 minutes, 50 minutes, and you could use those 50 minutes, right? I mean, I know I could use those 50 minutes, but I want you to intentionally try to turn your phone to grayscale. I'm not even going to ask that you leave it on grayscale. I'm going to ask that you just try to find it, which even as I'm talking to you, I can't freaking find it on my phone. That's how they've hidden this. But when you ultimately get your phone to grayscale, you're going to look at it and be like, Ew. Well, that's not fun to look at. Ooh, all those influencers don't look so tan and amazing and fabulous when it's on gray scale.
(00:44:34):
This isn't that neat to be in. It's sort of like the same way a casino is bright and shiny and loud and you have to walk through it and you can't find the elevators, which means you stay in it long enough because when you strip away the colors, your phone is very boring. It's literally the difference between watching a movie that is 100% AI driven, where somebody's arm twists into a snake and then it morphs into a cheetah. And it's just this absolutely unbelievable visual just craziness versus thinking about the original Frankenstein movie that was black and white and amazing at the time. But you're just now looking at it, is that my uncle dressed up in a suit for I party? I mean, that's that thing's pretty terrible. You can barely even watch it. And the reason why I'm saying this is because when you strip away the colors on your phone, you're going to get the chills because I think beautiful design is something that's exciting to see.
(00:45:52):
But holy cow, when you just strip away all the bells and whistles, you'll now see your phone for what it should be, which is a tool, a tool you can use to get work done, a tool you can use to connect with people you care about, a tool that you can use to search for information that you need that makes you smarter, a tool that you can use to market. But boy, oh boy, does it not make you want to stay on this thing because it's super boring. And the reason why I'm telling you this now is because if it's super boring and sort of like, Ugh, why would I want to use that? I don't want to hang out with an Excel spreadsheet all day. I mean, this is like what you'll also realize what Dr. K is saying, all the pretty colors and the moving things and the popups here and the thing over there and the scrolling that you're doing, it's very stimulating and it's also draining your dopamine, which is keeping you on there.
(00:46:56):
And that means it's draining the reserves that you need for motivation and pleasure for the important things in your life. And that brings me to another thing that I want to add to this conversation. So we've already talked about the fact that you've got to wake up and recognize that you live in the attention economy and that tech is designed to steal your attention and that you've become unknowingly and without consent, a tool in someone else's game. And the game is let's make money on you. So that's IIC number one. IIC number two is that it's not just making other people money. It's actually costing you something important. It's costing you your dopamine reserves that first thing in the morning. When you look at this stuff and you expose yourself to this arena that you're stepping in where it's designed to make you lose, you're not just losing time and attention and energy, you're also losing your dopamine.
(00:48:04):
It's like that lemon hard squeeze gone, and it's not your fault. The whole game is rigged, and that's why you feel how you feel. And the really awful part about all this is that it keeps you on it and addicted to it because if you are getting that hard squeeze on the lemon by looking at bright and shiny things, guess what? You're going to keep going back to it. Just like people keep going back to cigarettes and they keep going back to slot machines and they keep going back to alcohol because the game itself and the device and substance itself is designed to do this to you. And that's why it's not your kid's fault. It's not your fault, it's not anybody's fault, but we have a responsibility to ourselves to wake up and recognize what's happening so that when the world that you see changes, you change the way you see the world and you change the way that you show up.
(00:49:07):
Wayne Dwyer said that, and it's time to change the way that you show up because the third thing I want to tell you is that it's actually already changed your brain. This is not just a problem for the kids and the high schoolers and the college kids in your life. Most of us just don't realize that it's happened to us too. For example, this is when I really first started to notice it. For me personally, as I said earlier, I've understood the attention economy and I've both understood it because I've been sucked into it. And I also understand it because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm in the media business. But for me personally, this really started to hit me a couple years ago when I just started to practice being in line at a grocery store and not checking my phone.
(00:50:01):
It's a very hard thing to do. I want you to try this just like you tried the gray scale. The next time you're standing in line, you're standing at a hardware store or you're standing at a checkout line at a little corner store, I want you to not look at your phone like keep it in your pocket or in your back pocket or in your purse. And here's what you're going to notice. You get fidgety. You feel this sense that you need to look at it. You're going to feel yourself looking around and you're going to notice everybody else that's standing in line, unless they're talking to a child, they literally are looking at their phones. And then when you see other people looking at their phones, you are going to start to really feel like you need to be looking at your phone. This is a sign that all of this intentional programming and engineering is working because it's changed the wiring in your brain and it's made you want and crave something that you don't need. Another example is can you watch television without having your phone nearby? How quickly when the series that you're watching gets slow, do you reach for your phone? I'll give you one more, one more. This is the big one. Do you lay in bed and look at your phone? Does the idea of even going to bed without your phone nearby make you feel agitated?
(00:51:38):
And this is not just a problem for teenagers. I have a really close friend of mine who was telling me that they're very worried about their father because he, since retiring, has become addicted to his iPad. He literally sits with it and rocks as he's watching it all day. He goes to bed with it. The man is 80 years old. It is creating huge problems in his marriage of 45 years, he's addicted to a thing that's actually designed to be addictive. And you're watching your father pull away from life while other people make more and more and more money on him. That's what's happening. And if you can't see that for yourself, that the game is rigged to keep you playing. That's why you feel these things. That's why you and I stay longer on our phones than we intend to. That's why eventually you open up your wallet and you're clicking shop now and you're buying all this stuff that you didn't intend to.
(00:52:42):
And while this is not good news, that it's engineered to change you and keep you addicted, and these small examples that I'm pointing out are evidence that it's true. The good news is that your brain has something called neuroplasticity, which I'm sure is a word that you've heard. It's just a fancy word that means your brain can change it's bendy, it can create new connections. Just like your brain learned that it needs the phone to go to bed, it can learn that it doesn't go to bed with the phone. You can retrain your brain. You can train your brain to see the phone and go, ick, just like an old boyfriend or girlfriend. Have you ever had a relationship in the past or a friend that you were super, super close with and then you started to kind of feel like, oh, I've spent a little bit too much time with them, but you keep spending time with them and then all of a sudden something happens and you're like, ick.
(00:53:45):
That's what I want you to feel about the phone. That's what I want you to feel. Every time you play the Hunger Games and you step into the arena that is social media, AI or the internet, I want you to see it for what it is because when you see the game for what it is, you can actually now play the game and win. And that brings me to the final thing, what to do, what do you do? What do you do now that you hopefully have the ick? And if you're younger and you're listening to this and you still have aspirations of having an online business and you still have aspirations of becoming an influencer or a YouTuber, that's great. You can do whatever you want with your life, but you will make more money and be more successful if you go into those professions, understanding that this is a tool, that your phone is a device, and that you don't collapse who you are and the meaning in your life with your ambition and job and wanting to use the tool for marketing or learning how to make money online.
(00:55:03):
It's an incredible thing to do. And if you're listening to me and you're a realtor or you have a side hustle, you should be using the phone and the internet and social media as a tool. But what's going to make you wildly successful is understanding that you're the one in charge. And here's what you're going to do. And I'm almost embarrassed to give you the advice, right, because you already know the advice. But the thing about advice is it's easy to know what to do because we've all been told you got to have less screen time, right? You got to spend less time on the phone. Okay, thanks, Sherlock. I think I'm aware of that now that Mel has explained attention economy and the fact that I've been losing the game and the fact that this is designed to steal my time and the fact that I'm losing dopamine and that my brain has been rewired.
(00:55:57):
Now I have a reason why I actually want to do something. And so I'm just going to give you the things that have mattered to me because there's lots of things that you can do,
Mel Robbins (00:56:10):
But there's really one major thing that I think is super important, and that is boundaries. I want you to have very clear boundaries with your phone. And the only thing that has helped me is physical separation. I've tried to limit the screen time and to put the timers on, I just suspend the notifications. I have moved my apps from the home screen to pages in. It just ends up making me scroll more for real. The gray scale and going black and white, that's a big deal because it's not that fun to be on the phone and it reminds you that this is utility rather than addiction and a time waster.
(00:56:59):
But the biggest boundary that's really worked for me is physical separation, not having the phone on your body because I'm just like you are. I have a need for the phone. I'm addicted to the phone. I recognize that. So if it's in my hand or on my body, I will look at it. Physical acts of separation have made a big difference in my ability to establish boundaries and not casually enter the arena. So what does that look like? Well, the biggest boundary that I have, I talk about it a lot and so you may have heard me say this, but again, this is a daily boundary I have to set. I don't take the phone into bed at night. As hard as it is, I charge my phone in the bathroom because if this phone were next to me, I would reach for it. Full stop.
(00:57:53):
I would. So I make it very difficult to reach for it by having it separated from me. That's number one. Number two, I leave my phone typically on my desk. Now I have my phone in my hand. If you're watching on YouTube, you've seen me holding this thing. It's got a bright pink case all day long. If I'm during work hours, I keep my phone on my desk and I try not to have it on my person because if it's at my desk and then I go to a meeting, I am not checking it. If it's at my desk and I am doing some work, I'm not really looking at it. If it's on my body, I'm looking at it. Another thing that I do, here's another physical boundary. When I'm out taking a morning walk, in particular, my phone is zipped in my fanny pack.
(00:58:41):
Yes, I have a fanny pack. The dog treats are in there, but it's in my fanny pack or it's in a back pocket. If I don't have that on me or it's in a zipped like pocket so that I'm not engaged with it, I'm actually present with my surroundings. I don't walk and hold it because why? I'll look at it. Another boundary that's been a really important one for our family is we do not allow phones at the dinner table, period. Whether we're at home, whether we're at a restaurant, they're not allowed, even resting on the table, they are on your person in a pocket or they're in your bag. And it's made a big difference in just encouraging meaningful conversations and connections. And the more you do that, the more you're going to dedicate time to hobbies, to interests, to actually building the business, to doing the art, to marketing what you're working on, instead of being the one that's being marketed to. And that's what's available to you.
Mel Robbins (00:59:45):
It's time for you and I to wake up and be smart about what's actually happening. And instead of being used by them, how about you and I turn the tables and we use them to achieve our goals and to make our lives a little bit better. Go look at everybody that you follow, all the accounts, and I promise you, you're going to realize you only see the same five accounts over and over and over again because they're the ones that the social media platforms are serving to you because they think you're going to stay on longer, and that means they're going to make more money. But if you are following somebody, you're giving them access to your brain and your attention, and that has value. And so what I want you to do is audit. Who has access to that?
(01:00:32):
If the accounts that you're following do not give positive input, they don't make you laugh. They don't make you a better person. They don't make you feel good. Delete, unfollow because it is a privilege for that account to be able to show up in your feed. And when you start treating the input as a tool, who can I follow that's going to make me better? What accounts can I follow in order to grow and achieve my goals? When you use it proactively, that way you're not actually stepping into the arena waiting to be killed by everybody and waiting to be a tool and everybody else's game to make money. You're actually stepping into the arena and selectively seeking out allies that now can help you achieve your goals and win the game. And that's going to change all the time. And look, if you follow me and I'm not lifting you up, do not follow me.
(01:01:29):
That's how much I want you to truly honor your attention. I want you to really look at it like a gift. And the way that you win is by putting up a gate between you and who's allowed to put input into your brain. That's how I think about the accounts that I follow. Are you actually making me better? Are you lifting me up? Are you teaching me things or am I following you out of guilt? Or just because I followed you 10 years ago or because we went to college together? That's not what I'm doing this arena. I'm looking for allies that make me better, and that's what I want you doing too. And you can curate your social media feed to uplift you rather than just constantly be staring at people that are trying to sell you something or bragging about their life or making you jealous of what they're doing.
(01:02:18):
Get rid of those because all that negativity impacts you. And there's one final thing that I think is super interesting that I want to unpack for you because it brings us full circle and really helps you embrace the gravity of what's happened in the last five years and why this isn't your fault, but how waking up and recognizing the attention economy and how it's impacted you has also robbed you of a lot of meaning in your life. And I want to start that conversation by sharing a little bit of research with you that I found to be really important. And
Mel Robbins (01:03:02):
This comes from a study that was done by researchers in China, and they were looking at different interventions that could reduce symptoms of internet addictions. So everything that we're talking about here, spending too much time on your phone, too much time on social media, too much time online.
(01:03:20):
And what they found this was published in the Journal of Addictive Behavior, is that one intervention that had very strong effects on reducing symptoms of internet addiction was exercise. Now it begs the question, why would introducing exercise reduce addictive behavior online? Well, there's an important reason why moving your body is an important way to positively and naturally squeeze that little juice of dopamine. It puts you in a better mood. And have you ever noticed that if you ever go out for a hike or you do a pickup soccer game or you're playing a set of pickleball, you don't have any interest in looking at your phone because you're engaged in the physical activity. If I'm ever out skiing, I'm not skiing down a mountain looking at my phone because I'm moving my body and I'm connected to the environment. And so this is an important thing to understand because I think what's happened is as the rules of the game have changed and we didn't realize that the phone is turned into hunger games and that it's designed for us to lose that, it's created this self-fulfilling negative loop where the more time you spend on the phone, the less time you spend exercising or connecting with friends or doing the things that bring your life, meaning like gardening and painting and picking up the guitar, all those things that lift you up naturally, you're not doing them.
(01:04:59):
Why? Because you don't have time. You're tired, you're exhausted, and all of this is a result of the freaking phone and social media. So just as it sapped you and sucked you in over the last five years and you spend more and more and more and more and more time on it, it has left you more and more and more drained, more blah, more tired and with less time, which means you don't have the time or the energy to do the things that gave your life true meaning. And that's the most important epiphany of all, is that here you and I are sitting there at the end of a long workday making ourselves wrong. We're exhausted and overwhelmed and stressed out, and we now just spent two to three hours doom scrolling. We've blown past our bedtime. We feel bad that we just wasted that time, and then we wake up tomorrow and instead of going out for a walk or changing our habits, we just pick up the phone again and squeeze all the juice and the dopamine's gone again.
(01:06:06):
And here we are trapped in this trap. And my huge, huge number one thing is this is not your fault. The system's designed to do this to you, which is why you and I need to wake up and we need to recognize that the phone and social media is now the Hunger Games that you and I became a tool that it stole everything for us. But we do not have to live like that and big tech and the phone and social, it's not going to change. In fact, it's going to get worse. And so now's the time to understand that this can be a tool. It can be a tool for good, for connection, for growth, for learning, for art, for making great money, for making a difference in the world. It can be a tool for all kinds of amazing things, but only if you use it at that.
(01:07:00):
And so the more boundaries that you create with this, the more you put it on gray scale, the more you keep it off your person, the more you look at it and go, Ugh, I'm not stepping into the arena now that I see what it is. I'm not going to do that to myself. What you're going to get back is kind of extraordinary. Number one, you're going to get time back. Number two, you're going to get energy back. Number three, you're going to get your dopamine reserves back, which means your mood is going to get boosted and your energy is going to get lifted. And so is your optimism and your excitement, and you're going to recognize, wow, there's a lot of other things that I'd like to be doing with my life and the time that I have, other than just giving it over to big tech so other people can make money on me.
(01:07:47):
So thank you, thank you, thank you for hitting play, and thank you for sharing this with everybody in your life that you care about that has a phone. I think this is one of those conversations that I truly hope travels around the world to everybody because waking up and understanding what's happening and seeing where you are not at fault, but you've lost a little of your power, also helps you take that power back because you do have power. And I am so excited to see what happens in your life when you start using your phone and social media and the internet for good because you can. And in case no one else tells you this, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there is no doubt in my mind that the conversation that we just had will help you create a better life because you now see how the rules have changed you now see the game that's being played, and once you see it, you can change how you play the game, which means you, my friend, are going to be winning at it.
(01:08:59):
Alrighty, I will see you in the very next episode. I will be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. And for you, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you're here with me on YouTube. It's not lost on me that you're actually watching this right on the internet, but you understand the context. And that means you can watch this and use the information to empower yourself. You can choose to watch things that really lift you up. And that's why I'm so proud to be here with you. I'm proud of the videos and the episodes that our team is putting out here for you. I'm proud of what we're doing here at the Mel Robbins podcast. I love that you're a part of the family and I know you're like, okay, this has been great. Mel, what should I watch next?
(01:09:45):
Well, first things first, I just want to tell you my goal is that 50% of the people that watch this YouTube channel and that watch the Mel Robbins podcast are subscribers really helps the show. It helps our team know what you're loving, and it really supports us in bringing you the best possible episodes that we can. And so if you could hit subscribe. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I know you're the kind of person that loves supporting people who support you. Thank you for supporting me. And that next video that you're going to watch is this one. You're going to absolutely love it. I'll be waiting in it the moment you hit play to welcome you in. I'll see you there.
Resources
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- The Verge: How to turn your phone screen to grayscale
- Nielsen: Time Flies: U.S. Adults Now Spend Nearly Half a Day Interacting with Media
- Frontiers in Psychology: Stress and Problematic Smartphone Use Severity: Smartphone Use Frequency and Fear of Missing Out as Mediators
- United Nations: Attention Economy
- Berkeley Economic Review: Paying Attention: The Attention Economy
- National Institute on Drug Use: Can Too Much Screen Time Harm You?
- Harvard Medical School: Screen Time and the Brain
- Stanford Center on Longevity: What Excessive Screen Time Does to the Adult Brain
- The Wall Street Journal: Reduce Your Screen Time With This Simple Trick
- Mobile Media & Communication: Is life brighter when your phone is not? The efficacy of a grayscale smartphone intervention addressing digital well-being
- Frontiers in Psychology: Exercise-Based Interventions for Internet Addiction: Neurobiological and Neuropsychological Evidence
- Harmony Hit: Are You Addicted to Your Phone? American Phone Usage & Screen Time Statistics
- King’s College London: Teens with problematic smartphone use are twice as likely to have anxiety – and many are eager to cut down
- Forbes: Lost In The Scroll: The Hidden Impact Of The Attention Economy
- Interacting with Computers: The Second Wave of Attention Economics. Attention as a Universal Symbolic Currency on Social Media and beyond
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