Episode: 195

How to Create a New Version of Yourself: Let Go of Past Mistakes & Overcome Regret

with Sarah Jakes Roberts

Turn your pain into rocket fuel.

If you’ve ever failed or felt like you’re not being the version of yourself you know you’re meant to be, this is the episode for you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts, a bestselling author and speaker, shares her story of transforming failure into success.

This episode is a powerful reminder to stop discounting yourself and the impact you have in this world.

Get the confidence you need, in this episode.

Listen on:

You cannot heal while you are still punishing yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts

Featured Clips

Transcript

Mel Robbins (00:00:00):

I feel this energy and this truth that comes through you, it just gets me so choked up. To be in the presence of somebody that has such a gift. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what you believe most of us need to hear and be reminded of.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:00:23):

Most people underestimate how necessary their existence is in the world, and as a result, assume a posture of resignation that leaves the world less than what it could be. Our lives are not random, they are not coincidences. We were all given these lives to make the world better, and I feel like most people underestimate how necessary they are. And as a result, they don't take their healing seriously. They don't take their thoughts seriously. But if we truly ever tapped into the high value of our breath, it would change what we speak. It would change what we think. It would change how we show up in the world, and it would quite literally make the world a better place.

Mel Robbins (00:01:15):

Oh, Sarah Jakes Roberts just gave you a gift. Hey, it's your friend Mel. There are going to be times in your life when you wake up and wonder, have I messed it all up periods in your life that just suck where you've made a major mistake, you feel a lot of regret. Maybe you're still there mentally right now, or maybe someone that you love is going through a really low period in their life. When you're struggling, it begs the question, can you really overcome any failure or any pain or regret or mistake that you've made in your life? And if I were to tell you that there's absolutely no mistake that will keep you from becoming who you're truly meant to be, would you actually believe me? Well after today, you will because you are about to meet a remarkably inspiring person who has been knocked down over and over and over again, and she knows the secret to getting back up, to finding your power.

(00:02:29):

Even when you feel powerless, when you were little, you once thought anything was possible. This episode today will remind you it still is because there is nothing that you've done that will stand in the way of who you want to become. So if you're tired of regrets holding you back, and if you're sick of beating yourself up over the mistakes that you've made today, you're going to learn how to pick yourself back up and take that big old pile of leftovers from life and turn it into a five star meal. I always say, no one's coming, but today someone special is here, the one and only. Sarah Jakes Roberts. I am so excited to get to spend some time with you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. So I would love to have you start by talking directly to the person who's listening and share with them what they can expect to experience and learn from you today. How might their life change if they take everything that you're about to share to heart?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:03:44):

I would say today you are going to learn to rest in the truth of who you are. Not just your hopes and dreams, the achievements and shiny things, but the things that have been hard and challenging today. You're going to find a way to rest in that, embrace it, accept it, and then allow it to propel you into a big, beautiful future.

Mel Robbins (00:04:07):

Oh yeah, I'm ready. Yeah. Yeah, I would like that. Let's go. Go. In order to go forward, I think oftentimes in life you got to look back and one of the things that I love the most about you, there's so many things that I love about you, but I love that whenever I watch you online or I tune into a sermon or I read something that you've written, I feel as though I have somebody walking by my side, not somebody speaking down from above. And you have a story in terms of your past that I think a lot of people don't realize. And I would love for us to go back in time before we start talking about the wisdom that you have to share because there is so much that you've learned from those periods in your life. So can you take us back to this moment in time? You are the daughter of a well-known megachurch pastor, and something happens in your personal life.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:05:14):

Yes. I got pregnant at 13 years old. I had my son at 14 years old, which I think is a staggering sentence no matter whose child you are. But the added complexity of my father being a prominent leader in faith, I think further intensified the sense of shame, the sense of guilt that I had to wade through for about 10 years. And I think also that was heightened by this fact that though I have this family that is huge in the faith world, I never really felt like one of the good girls, one of the God girls wanted the church girls. And so in many ways it felt like this pregnancy just confirmed a preexisting insecurity that for some reason I didn't fit. And so my pregnancy is when I accepted like, okay, this is not for me. I'm going to figure life out on my own and I'm going to let all the good church people do what good church people do, and I'm just going to figure everything else out. Well, God had different plans. I think he did.

Mel Robbins (00:06:17):

When I think about the age 13 and 14, how did you even process something like that? As such a young girl,

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:06:27):

I, I thought the worst thing that was going to happen was, I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going be grounded. We didn't even have cell phones at the time. Like, oh my gosh, you're going to take the antenna out of the TV and take the phone cord out of the wall. This is going to be punishment. It wasn't until I saw their reaction that I began to realize that this is bigger than just you are in trouble. This is a life altering experience that has created grief in our family. And I think that seeing their grief, seeing them struggle with what it means to have a child that's having a child made me realize that whatever just took place here has changed my life forever.

Mel Robbins (00:07:09):

And it's interesting that you, in reflecting back can say, my immediate reaction was one of going, oh, well there are those kind of people over there that are the godly church people. I'm always going to be over here. What was that journey like over those 10 years where you were wrestling with that natural instinct that we all have, that we separate, we don't see ourselves as connected to other people, we push back against the love that's coming at us or the support that's coming at us? How did you even move through that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:07:50):

Well, I think, so I started off comparison, so I'm not like them. So let me figure out who I am.

(00:07:56):

And so I would say, you know what? I kind of feel like I'm close to this kind of girl, so I'll be that kind of girl. And then I got with those kind of girls and I don't exactly fit here, so let me go here. And I thought maybe achievement, maybe success, maybe relationships. I can be like whoever this other girl is supposed to be. And then I will try and find myself. And I think as long as I was trying to be some other version of someone that I never had an opportunity to figure out who I was. And so for 10 years I was trying on Cinderella, trying on different shoes. I was just trying going shoe after shoe after shoe until I said, you know what? I'm going to be barefoot. Who needs shoes? I'm a country girl from West Virginia. I'm going to be barefoot.

(00:08:37):

I'm going to stand flatfooted in the truth of who I am. I'm going to stand flatfooted in this. Maybe it is isolation, maybe it is loneliness. Maybe I don't fit anywhere. Maybe I just fit within myself. And from that space, I said, you know what? I've tried literally everything. I have waitress at a strip club. I've tried these toxic relationships. I've gone to school. I worked for the government. I tried everything. I said, you know what? I'm going to try faith. I'm going to try and figure out if this God who they talk about who loves you no matter what, I'm going to see if maybe possibly it works for someone like me. And I think from there, this really intimate relationship with God allowed me to encounter healing and love and restoration. And I thought that it would just be between me and God that it would make no sense to anyone else. But it finally made sense to me.

Mel Robbins (00:09:27):

You said something that struck me that maybe I could just fit within myself within. What does that mean?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:09:36):

Maybe I can just embrace myself instead of seeking a sense of belonging, a sense of okayness from other people. If I could find a way to be okay with myself, then I can wrap my arms around who I am. And for me, I had to sit with myself until I no longer cringed. I had to sit with myself until I no longer felt shame. I had to sit with myself until I could experience compassion where I once felt guilt. And from that place of compassion, I learned to love who I am. And yes, this is my story, and no, it may not be perfect, but I'm going to stick beside me.

Mel Robbins (00:10:21):

Every single one of us has stuff that we've done in the past, things that we have done to ourselves or other people, mistakes that we think that we've made. How do you begin the process of sitting with yourself? How do you learn how to forgive yourself?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:10:43):

It starts with intention. I sat with myself. I will say those 10 years I was sitting with myself, but I was sitting with myself punishing myself. How could you be so stupid? You made the biggest mistake. No one's ever going to want you. Sometimes we are sitting with ourselves, but how we are sitting with ourselves is why we can't heal. You can't want to heal and punish yourself at the same time to repeat the words that other people have spoken over you that were negative. Having it replay in your mind over and over again while you sit with yourself will never bring you to a place of healing sitting with yourself with the pursuit of compassion, with the pursuit of love and acceptance, that is when we start sitting with ourself and experience some discomfort and some dysregulation. Because sitting with myself and trying to be compassionate requires me to stretch, to love myself in a way that I don't think is possible. And as long as you don't think it's possible to sit with yourself and love yourself every facet of who you are, it doesn't matter who you love, it doesn't matter what you achieve until you can really sit with yourself. None of those things are going to make you feel better either. But it is the greatest, absolute greatest gift that you can give yourself to allow love to flood the place where you once felt in emptiness.

Mel Robbins (00:12:05):

I just want to make sure that as you're taking your walk or you're washing your dishes or you are driving in your car, that you caught the actual magic that just came through the speakers or the headphones, I have never heard anybody say something as profound as you just said, you cannot heal while you are still punishing yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:12:35):

Oh yeah. And we don't do ourselves any favors by committing to punishing ourselves over and over again for what we did, for what we allowed to happen. This is what we say though. We say to ourselves, I'm going to keep this from happening again by constantly living with it right in front of me. And if I can live with it right in front of me, if I can beat myself up, if I can punish myself, then I will keep this from happening again. I will prepare myself for further rejection from other people if I constantly remember how unworthy I am, how little value I possess. And so in many ways, we think this is me protecting myself by constantly keeping it in front of my face.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:13:25):

But if we're honest, we do long for an existence where we want to believe that I am not just this one moment, but we will never be more than that one moment if we constantly replay that moment in our head. And so to invite into our atmosphere, what other moments do I want to have? What other things do I want to define me? I spent so long not wanting to be defined as a teen mom, instead of saying, I will be defined as being a teen mom, but also I'm going to be an incredible person, but also I'm going to love myself, but also I'm going to dream and I'm going to be an author and a teen mom. I'm not trying to disconnect from who I was. I'm trying to bring all of who I am into the fullness of where I am. Sarah Jakes

Mel Robbins (00:14:12):

Roberts just gave you a gift, but also, but also

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:14:19):

I'm this and that I am all of these things. And I thought that because I was this one thing, I had no permission to be anything else. So yeah, the truth is, yeah, I'm a teen mom. Yes, I've gone through divorce. I've got a laundry list of things that I never wanted to be that I've had to step boldly in. And in addition to that, I'm on the Mel Robbins podcast. And in addition to that, you know what I mean, millions of people to you every single week, all of those things are true. All of these things are true. And I don't want to be all of my achievements. Gosh, can you imagine what that would be? The pressure and the arrogance connected to that. I want to be this beautiful mixture, this beautiful tapestry of a girl on a journey and a woman owning her power. And I can live in all of that. I can do all of that. A girl on

Mel Robbins (00:15:11):

Her journey and a woman owning her power. Somebody needs to write a song. Holy cow, when you're speaking, have this experience of just things flowing through you. I don't even feel like it's a conversation. I feel this energy and this truth that comes through you. It just gets me so choked up to be in the presence of somebody that has such a gift.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:15:47):

Oh, I believe that I'm anointed for this. I believe that anything that I've done in the earth is not a reflection of my skills or my talents or something you pick up in a book. This is a full submission to my belief that I am made in the image of God and that I have this incredible opportunity to reflect God's glory everywhere I go. And if I can get past my nerves, if I can get past my insecurity, if I can get past my second guessing and rest in that truth, there is a flow that just happens. And it doesn't just happen in this. I'm in flow when I'm raising my children, they're opening up to me and I'm like, God, don't let me be worried. Don't let me overreact. You know what I mean? Let me reflect your glory in their vulnerability. Let me reflect your glory. When I go into this meeting. I really do want to be a light in this world. And after experiencing as much darkness as I have gone through to offer just a flicker to another person, maybe I can't be this big brilliant light for everyone, but if today in this moment you're listening and I get to be a flicker on your journey, just know that there are other flames connected that are going to build this inferno of who you're going to be. But we got to gather every flicker, right?

Mel Robbins (00:17:17):

Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:17:17):

And I think that's the part of life that many of us miss, is that we're waiting for these big moments that are going to shine a huge light on us. And when I have that huge light, then I'm going to feel better. I'm going to be confident, I'm going to be powerful. But I am beginning to believe that it's all about us gathering those little moments, those little Christmas light size moments where things are just a little bit better, and then we look up and things have become brilliant.

Mel Robbins (00:17:44):

Millions of people do tune in to your every word. And having watched and listened to your sermons and experienced what a force you are, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what you believe most of us need to hear and be reminded of.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:18:14):

Most people underestimate how necessary their existence is in the world, and as a result, assume a posture of resignation that leaves the world less than what it could be.

(00:18:31):

Our lives are not random. They are not coincidences. There is nothing more special about me than there is about you. We were all given these lives to make the world better. And I feel like most people underestimate how necessary they are. And as a result, they don't take their healing seriously. They don't take their thoughts seriously. We put ourselves on discount and give ourselves away to the lowest bidder because we have these achings inside of us. But if we truly ever tapped into the high value of our breath, it would change what we speak. It would change what we think. It would change how we show up in the world. And it would quite literally make the world a better place. If you can just make your world, your friends, your family, your sisters, your coworkers, if you can take seriously the impacts you have in your corner of the world. And then I take seriously the impact that I have with my influence in my corner of the world, those incremental commitments are how we begin to change the narrative of what it means to be humans surviving together.

Mel Robbins (00:19:43):

That's beautiful. And I think you're right. I do too. I get struck by the number of people that write in every single day that are seeking purpose.

(00:19:54):

And I think to myself, well, your purpose is to heal and to share yourself and to make yourself better and then make everybody that comes in contact with you feel a little better to spread the light that you're talking about. But it starts with you. You said something that just, holy cow, I'd never heard this. It's this concept of discounting yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:20:20):

Oh yeah.

Mel Robbins (00:20:20):

To the lowest bidder. Can you explain that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:20:23):

Yeah. So when I look at the 10 years of my life where I struggle, first of all, I grew up in church during the height of purity culture. The highest prize was to be this untouched virgin. When you get married, they didn't care if you went to school, they didn't care, girl, just don't give it up. The over and over again. It's just like, girl, don't do it. Okay, well, I did it. I was like, okay, you guys are not going to do it. How am going to do it? I did it. Okay. And so I'm like, alright, we're going to knock that price down a little bit, put a little sticker over my worth and my value. And then I'm like, well, hey, the price is already low. You might as well try some other things. And so I think little by little, I fell for this idea that if I cannot live up to someone else's definition of a woman, someone else's definition of a believer, someone else's definition, then I have to discredit, I have to discount who I am.

(00:21:17):

And the only problem with that is when you begin to see yourself as less valuable, you also accept things that you would not otherwise accept. If you felt like you had value, if I were smart enough, if I were thin enough, if I were beautiful enough, then maybe I wouldn't have to do this. But since I don't have these things, I have to accept that. And that is a lie. Your value is not set by these experiences you have gone through. They're not set by society standard. I don't care what they call beautiful, I don't care what they call powerful. Your value is an inside job. It is a commitment that says, you know what? The truth of who I am, my ability to survive all that I've gone through, the way that I have seen the world has added to my value, not decreased it.

(00:22:01):

And that is some big, bad, bold belief that not many of us are able to tap into. But if we can just try by faith to say, what if that didn't change anything? I work with women quite a bit, and while my issue was teen pregnancy and having to recover from that, I know enough about what women have gone through to know that whether their parents went divorced, they got divorced molestation, they have all of these experiences that they think in some way has made them different than the person they're sitting next to. And because I am not as valuable than I have to do things that they don't have to do. What I have learned is that everyone has had some type of experience that has challenged them in their belief of their value. And because we've all had these types of experiences, maybe we aren't any less valuable as a result of the experiences. Maybe instead we're more valuable because the wisdom and resiliency connected with having to face these things have made us more confident, more courageous in how we can show up in the world. There's a conversion that has to take place, but once that conversion happens, there's a relentlessness that is attached to it as well for the person listening

Mel Robbins (00:23:14):

Who is nodding along. And the way you just frame this idea that if you take any mistake that you make and then you discount yourself and you start to tell yourself the story over and over again that you're not valuable, which then makes you accept behaviors in your life or makes you discount your own value. And you said, actually no, there's a flip here. All those experiences actually create wisdom. They make you human, and it's what you do with those things that matters, and you have control over that. And most people are sitting there talking about what happened, instead of flipping it into something that they can use to make something extraordinary happen.

Mel Robbins (24:04):

You have this concept about life giving you leftovers and how you make a meal out of it. Can you share that with us? I have a feeling that that's sort of a tool we can use to help us look at the things that we keep beating ourselves up over.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:24:23):

So if I go back to when I was pregnant,

(00:24:26):

And mind you, I was 14 years old, so I thought that the only way I could recover from my pregnancy was to create a new life, a new existence. And so my goal was to do something completely new. I'm going to be an accountant. I'm going to be a CFO. I am going to put something on top of this teen pregnancy that's going to make things better. And I think that the reason why I know that the reason why I failed over and over again in trying to create something new is that I wasn't using what I had left over. Instead of saying, okay, this is what's in my cabinet. I'm a teen mom, I'm a smart girl, I have a writing gift. I kept trying to reinvent who I was.

(00:25:13):

And you can't reinvent who you are using ingredients that don't exist. You got to use all of the ingredients. So yes, I have all of these gifts and talents, but I also have a child. I'm still struggling with my insecurities. I've gone through this divorce. I have to take all of this and order to create something that is really going to be authentic to who I am. Because what I don't want to do is reinvent a version of myself that requires me to pretend that I'm not who I was. This is who I am, this is my truth. And when you fight to really accept the truth of who you are, you don't allow it to be snatched easily out of your hands. And because it's not snatched easily out of your hands, whatever you build with those things aren't snatched either. When I started blogging, this is how all of this became a thing where I had a following.

Mel Robbins (00:26:13):

Got it. So just to put it in a timeline, are you in your early twenties?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:26:18):

I'm in my early twenties. Okay.

Mel Robbins (00:26:19):

So you open up the cupboard and I love that visual. I think most of us, when we say, let's just look at what you got. Let's just take the wrong ingredients. Let's take all, for me, it's like being molested.

(00:26:32):

It's All the cheating that I did. It's the anxiety that I struggled with. It's the what a bitch I used to be. It is all of just all of it. It's all Sarah. When I open up that cupboard, I'm like, whoa,

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:26:46):

You know what? I'll just go grocery shopping. I'm going grocery shopping. I'm not cooking with this stuff. Door dash. Exactly.

Mel Robbins (00:26:53):

No, no, no. I'm not going to cover. Let's do something with it. Let's paint the cupboard in. Let's nail, let's shut. Let's do something. Let's distract everybody over here. But it makes so much sense because until you get comfortable with the ingredients that you have, and you see it as something to use, not to be ashamed of not to hide, because the stuff that you hide people and the world then has power

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:27:21):

Over. For sure, for sure.

Mel Robbins (00:27:23):

But the second that you open up the cupboard and you are willing to look at what you're working with.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:27:29):

Yeah,

Mel Robbins (00:27:30):

Now

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:27:31):

You

Mel Robbins (00:27:31):

Have power.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:27:32):

Yeah, I love it. That to me is the greatest message that any of us need to understand is that us closing the cabinet means that I have to live in existence that pretends that I don't have what I have and that is stressful and that is inauthentic. And then we start people pleasing because if I'm not going to embrace who I am, then I'll just be whoever you need me to be. But when you say, you know what? This is who I am and you're going to have to meet me, you're going to have to meet me here. I'm still growing. I'm still talented, but this is what I have to offer. This is what I bring to the table, and I have found value in it. I can show you the value that I have found in it, but until I see it as valuable, I can't expect anyone else to see it. So yeah, in my early twenties, I'm like, okay, I want to start blogging. I was in a toxic relationship and I'm just like, I don't know how I got here. So writing for me is how I process my thoughts and I'm dumping it onto the internet, not thinking it's going to mean anything. Then people start connecting to this blog and now they're being inspired. And I'm like, oh Lord,

(00:28:34):

I didn't mean that for the cover is not inspired by me. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to slow this train down by telling them I got pregnant at 13 years old. I am going through a divorce. I dropped out of college. I am not your inspiration. And then I still was. They were like, oh my gosh, me too. Oh my gosh, I'm no longer alone in this. I didn't know that someone else felt this way. And now all of a sudden those things that I thought disqualified me, those things that I thought I could never use are the things that people actually had a taste for.

(00:29:11):

This authenticity, this truth, this uncertainty, and this willingness to own it. There was an appetite for that, that at the time it felt like very few people were willing to say, this is who I am. This is what I've gone through. And that appetite wasn't just for you to say, this is who I am, but also I really wish that I could also be this. And so in my early twenties, I started this journey of like, this is where I am. This is what I hope to be true. I'm going to live like it's true. And these women who have been on this journey with me have seen my life evolve literally as a result of us saying like, Hey, maybe we are the misfits. Maybe we aren't the ones that anyone wanted, but girl, I'll claim you.

Mel Robbins (00:29:59):

But first you got to claim your cupboard

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:30:00):

For sure. Got to claim your cupboard.

Mel Robbins (00:30:02):

That is such a phenomenal

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:30:04):

Metaphor

Mel Robbins (00:30:06):

Because all the people pleasing results and you not wanting people to see what's in there.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:30:10):

For sure.

Mel Robbins (00:30:11):

And until you learn how to go into those places where you're punishing yourself, and you said when we first started talking, allowing the love and compassion and acceptance to flow into those places that have been really dark. Well, they've been dark because the cabinet doors are closed.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:30:27):

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, it's really liberating. It sounds scary. I can feel the fear that you're probably experiencing right now at the very idea of going into that space that maybe your mom didn't have the courage to go in, your father never talked about, because a lot of this is generational. It's how our families paradigms have shaped the way we see ourselves and the way we see what we're working with. And I am just here to let you know, this is what I love about the book that I wrote, is that I am not going to make you drastically change your life overnight just between you and you. Can you open that cupboard just between you and you? Can you say, this is all that I'm working with. And some of it's real spicy and some of it's bland and some of it's bitter and some of it's very, very sweet. Just if you could create intimacy within yourself where you say, this is all of who I am. If you can hear your own story, that's the beginning.

(00:31:30):

If you can hear it and not cringe, if you can hear it and accept it, that's the beginning. And from that space, you whisper it to another person. There's a friend who's going through something, and because you've gone through your cupboard, you say, Hey, I got some of that too. I just want you to know that that doesn't have to be the end. And from community and connection, we begin to spread our story. And that spreading is why I'm here. And that spreading is the light that we get to offer to the world. It's our testimony, which

Mel Robbins (00:31:58):

Again, going back to the cupboard, it's dark when it's closed. So opening it up is the beginning of that little Christmas light that you're talking about that starts to sparkle and that we spread. And every time you open your mouth and you tell your story, that makes the light a little bit bigger. And you were saying that we make a mistake in waiting for these big bonfires in life when every single day there's the opportunity to open the cupboard door and open your mouth and tell your story. And that's where the light and the magic is

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:32:33):

For sure,

Mel Robbins (00:32:34):

For somebody who's in the place where, because for a long time when I started looking, I guess I used to say back, but since you actually sit with what's in your cupboard, it's in the present. Baby it right here. It's right here. You have to live very far. Well, the other thing is that we talk a lot about regret, but because you won't sit with it, it's actually not in the past. No. Yeah. And so for someone who is entertaining that liberating and courageous moment of even faith in yourself to face it right, and you do cringe, there are some things that the Mel Robbins, when I was Mel Schneeberger, there's stuff that I don't know that I still cringe, but I'm like, oh God, woman, what were you? And I have compassion.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:33:36):

Sure, sure,

Mel Robbins (00:33:37):

Sure. But for somebody that hasn't ever sat with it and the cringe is there and you want to turn from it,

Mel Robbins (00:33:46):

Do you have any tools or advice for how to sit through the cringe and what is actually coming when you allow all of that grief and that judgment to rise up inside you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:34:05):

I love that you used the word grief. I'm an analogy girl, if you haven't,

Mel Robbins (00:34:08):

Oh God, I

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:34:09):

Love that. Bring it. Okay, so here we go. So I think that part of the reason why we feel regret when we look at those moments in our lives that make us cringe is because we are constantly turning on a movie right in the middle and looking at one particular scene of our life over and over again and judging our life based on that scene. If you are in a moment right now where you're flirting with the idea of learning to sit with yourself and experience compassion for what you've gone through, I would dare you to look at your whole movie in totality. When I thought about the idea of me getting pregnant at 13, I would cringe like, girl, how could you over and over again? Now, when I think about it, I feel sorry for who I was at 13, not sorry because of who I am, but I feel compassion.

(00:35:03):

I feel her lostness. I feel her isolation. I feel her loneliness. I feel her anger. I understand why I made that choice. I know what I was looking for. I know what I didn't have because I sat with myself. And when you're in a family, my parents have their lives exploded overnight. People talk about megachurches, mega pastors. No one sets out for it to be mega. People keep coming. And it's like, I guess we need a bigger building. You know what I mean? And so you make these big buildings, and I guess we're supposed to do stuff in the communities. You respond to the need.

(00:35:46):

And while they were so busy dealing with whatever it meant to be thrust into the spotlight, they thought we were okay. They really did. They thought we were okay, but we were lost in a sea of people. And overnight our lives went from having this family church where we knew everyone to all of a sudden people sending death threats and we need security. And we weren't okay. No one was helping us process what was happening. They couldn't process it. And so I was lonely. I was angry. I didn't fit. So when I think about who I was when I got pregnant, if I just look at me rubbing my belly at 13, I could say, Ugh, so cringey. Or I could say, man, that girl was really heartbroken. That girl really needed someone who could see her. That girl really needed someone who would tell her where she fit in this world or to take her out of that world and to help dive into her own world. I didn't have those things. And as a result of that, I tried to self-soothe. And I made some choices that I wish I could have done differently, mainly for the sake of my son not having to grow up with me at the same time I was growing up.

(00:36:55):

But I don't feel bad about that anymore because I see the whole movie. And so if you're watching this or listening to it, I want you to know that you do not have to look at your life at one scene at a time, that the greatest gift you can give yourself is to look at it from the opening credits to where you are now, and understand that anyone who had what you had in the cabinet would've probably made the same choice. They would've likely ended up addicted to. Maybe they would've been heartbroken as well, maybe they would've been permitted. Whatever your thing is that makes you cringe. If you look at the whole movie, given what you had to work with, I want you to know that you did the best that you could.

Mel Robbins (00:37:40):

I love that you are reminding us to go back to the beginning.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:37:48):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (00:37:50):

Because we not only freeze the frame and we cut us off from the rest of the story, but we also freeze the frame, and we don't even consider the plot line that led up to this. And so we judge it from a frozen moment in time when you do have the full story. And as I listen to you over and over and over again and just really to each word, the thing that keeps coming up for me is this ability to look at the whole movie of your life, the fact that it's so easy to forget, isn't it? That this is also your parents' first time being human beings, that they're doing the best that they can with what they had in the cupboard based on what your grandparents had in their cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:38:51):

Hello.

Mel Robbins (00:38:52):

That doesn't mean that any of it is justified. It just means

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:38:56):

No, this is what they had.

Mel Robbins (00:38:56):

This is what they had. There is this level of kind of, my daughter has this term open arms. There's open arms kind of people, which is the physical version of an open heart. And you have this ability to make us want to look at our own movie and story with an open heart and compassion for self. How important is that sort of loving understanding, I guess, is how I would describe what compassion is?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:39:30):

Yeah, for sure. I would. Yeah. Looking at your life through a lens of love. Not judgment is an incredible definition of what it means to have compassion. And I think it's responsible to do that when you're going to engage in relationship with other people. Because if you can't look at your life through the lens of love, but you can look at other people's life through the lens of love and feel compassion for them, then you cannot even receive the love that you're pouring God into the world. Or worse, we are harsh with other people because we're harsh with ourselves,

(00:40:04):

Because I can't see my life through a lens of love. I'm definitely not going to see yours. And if I went through this and you went through that baby girl grabbed them, bootstraps, and that ain't nothing. Now we're in the struggle Olympics. Who's got it worse? Who's got it worse? You know what I mean? Or we're jealous or we're envious and we just are not the best people to be in relationship with when we haven't figured out what compassion looks like for our own journey, and especially for doing the work of raising children, loving partners, there is an obligation. I feel that we have to bring more love into the world. And love isn't going to come from pursuit. It's going to come from us digging a well within ourselves. And when we dig that well and we hit that spring of love, not just for ourselves, it overflows into how we care for other people.

(00:40:55):

We were at Starbucks the other day, and my daughter, she's 14, she's not aware of anything except for herself, and she slings the door open and she hits the car of the person beside us. Oh gosh. And he's coming out of Starbucks at the same time, and he doesn't, he calls her a dumb, he's called her something ignorant, crazy. So I heard him say it, and I go, now that wasn't kind. And that response, instead of matching his anger, because I've been frustrated before someone's hit my door, of course they weren't paying attention. So I'm not going to act like, oh my gosh, how could you be frustrated that someone hit your car and probably dinged your door?

(00:41:33):

But I think I caught him so off guard by not responding with fire. I was just like, no, that wasn't kind, that he felt conviction about how he was showing up in the world. But I think that when we are able to really master that, it literally changes all the ways that we interact with people. Now, that doesn't mean I won't cuss somebody out though, so don't catch. That was a good moment. I was full of love. I must've just been worshiping. But if you catch me on a low moment, I'm going to try. I'm going to do all the things.

Mel Robbins (00:42:00):

What are all the things that you do in order to stay in a grounded place where you are present to that power and light inside you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:42:11):

I have to rest. When I am not resting, I am running on fumes. And when I'm running on fumes, I don't always make the best choices. I'm tired. I'm weary. I'm irritated from the place of rest. Even if for me, it's just like spiritual rest, letting my brain rest, gratitude, appreciation, prayer, meditation, really reflecting on my life, and

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:42:37):

This is what I do. I let the 13-year-old girl who experienced shame, rejection and loneliness take in where life is now.

Mel Robbins (00:42:46):

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:42:47):

Yeah. The grown woman version of me grabbing this little girl's hand and saying, look, girl, look, you made it your son's 21 now, and he loves you and he's an incredible human. And oh my gosh, this man that you married, look at how he talks about you and my children and my life. And look what they're saying about you because she heard you're nasty. She heard you're a slut. She heard all of those things. And if I'm not careful, I won't allow her to hear what people are saying now. I won't allow her to experience the affirmation of God that exists in her life now. And sometimes I'm so busy doing and checking the boxes and going through the calendar that I don't let her in for this listening session where, look at this world,

Mel Robbins (00:43:41):

I think no matter where you are in your movie, the scene that you're in is still worthy of reaching backward and taking a younger version of yourself and just taking a moment and going, we made it this far.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:43:56):

Yeah,

Mel Robbins (00:43:57):

Like, look at all this.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:43:58):

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Because this thing, this adulting thing, they keep moving the marker. They just keep moving it. It's like, child, I just got here and now you're telling me that here doesn't exist. It's actually there. And then I get there, and that's not here either. But where I am now was a place there I once wanted to be. And I think reconciliation is being able to say, look at where we are now. Okay, you have all these things you want to do and all these plans, all that stuff. Like, okay, maybe we get there, maybe we don't. But right now, if we didn't get any further than this, man, if I did not get any further than this, it feels greedy for me. When people are like, what are you going to do next? What's next? What's next? What are you going to do? That feels like greed. I am in the overflow right now. If I never write another book, if this is the last podcast I record and I disappear from people's brains and minds. What God has done in my life up until this point was not something I could have ever asked for. I didn't even know this was possible. I did not know that God saw this for me. Oh, can I tell you a story?

Mel Robbins (00:45:12):

I am in a trance. You can tell me whatever the heck you want to tell me.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:45:15):

It just gives me chills. I love it. But when I first got pregnant,

(00:45:21):

Someone very close to me looked at me and said, I always knew to expect something like this from you. And that made me question so much. Now I'm 13 with a 13-year-old mind, and it just made me feel like there's really something wrong with you. The church stuff didn't make sense, and now someone's saying they knew to expect this from you. And I ate that for breakfast for 10 years. There's something wrong with you, the dirty, the nasty, all of that. I just ate that. I believed it. And when my life started changing, I think I probably did experience imposter syndrome, which it was weird. I told people who I was, but they were still there. And so now I'm just questioning myself. And I was at church and I was just kind of praying and worshiping, and I was about to go on tour. And Mel, I'll just be doing stuff. I'm just like, let's see what'll happen if we do a tour and then the tour sells out. I'm like, oh, Lord, I am usually prepared for things to fail, not for things to succeed. I'm like, oh, they come on the tour and I'm praying. And I really just felt like the presence of God saying, I always knew to expect something like this from you.

(00:46:39):

And sometimes I'm standing in moments and I start to feel doubt, and I start to feel worry, and I start to wonder if I have what it takes to stand up in the moment, and I feel God say, I always knew to expect something like this from you, and trusting what God knows, what God knew, what God saw, even when I didn't see it myself, nothing else could be added to this. And I will not allow other people's idea of who I could be to rob me of the assurance I have received from what God's always known about me. I can't let you keep moving the marker. I already know I won already.

Mel Robbins (00:47:29):

I won. How would you frame the way that you're talking about your relationship with God to a person that's listening that either has lost their faith or doesn't believe in God? How do they kind of tap into what you're saying if they're not in a place where they have the same level of faith that you do?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:47:53):

For me, I will say that I believe in the intentionality of our existence. The whole world has been created with this intention. The way that everything is working together, the solar system, the mosquitoes, everything is playing a part. I hate mosquitoes, but for some reason they do serve this atmosphere. I just don't believe that it got to humanity and there was no intention for humanity. And so that belief undergirds the way that I show up in the world, that I am just as essential as the sun for my time here. I am just as essential as the ocean for my time here. I believe that. And so from that space of intentionality, I am always seeking out how do I make sure that I am in an optimal state to be sensitive to the role that I can play in this moment? What I love about

Mel Robbins (00:48:53):

What you just said is that you are raising the stakes on yourself for why you are here. And so many of us are looking around for somebody else to go, okay, I pick you. Okay, you're now the one. Okay, I'm going to give you permission. And when you look at yourself as being here for a reason, and the reason is simply to spread light simply to make the people around you, your community, your family, yourself, feel better to do good like that in and of itself gives your life meaning. And then when you add into it, okay, so let me work with the ingredients that I got. Let me do something with this.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:49:42):

That's why I said to make sure I'm in my optimal state, which means I've got to make sure that I am as well, as aware as whole, as reconciled as possible in order for me to be most effective. That's a constant reconciliation in accounting. I got to go back to the books. Hold on. You done got on my nerves today. I must need a nap. I need to go reconci

Mel Robbins (00:50:05):

Nap. I think rest is something I need. I become so I hate myself when I'm tired.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:50:11):

She's not a good girl. She's not.

Mel Robbins (00:50:15):

I want to throw her in the cabinet. Obviously

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:50:16):

She needs a nap. She, and not just like, I need to go to sleep. I need you all to stop asking me for stuff.

(00:50:24):

I can always tell when my family, my community, my team are asking me for things that I set a precedent for, and I am annoyed. Why did they call you and tell you to come today to give this talk? No, lemme tell you. When my 8-year-old asked me what for dinner, I'm like, feed yourself. When are you going to grow up? Why are you asking me for dinner? What do I look like the chef? I'm like, you need a nap. Because now you set this precedent and you don't want to live up to it anymore. And so maybe you do need to change the precedent, but you probably don't want to communicate it that way. So you need to take a minute, recollect, regroup, figure out what do you need, what is still true for you right now? What is no longer true? And who needs to be aware of this so that they can make space for who you are. Now,

Mel Robbins (00:51:11):

You know what I'm going to do when we're done talking, what I am going to ask the team to take that particular segment and text it to me so that I can listen to it on repeat until I have taken my nap and I can just change the precedent and stop being angry about being overworked. Right? It is everywhere. And I think what you just said is genius because especially as women,

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:51:38):

Yeah,

Mel Robbins (00:51:39):

Sign me up. Sign me

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:51:40):

Up. I'll do it. I'll it, I'll

Mel Robbins (00:51:41):

Do it. No, got. It's easier to do it myself. Okay, no problem. No problem. And then the thing that you said about your 8-year-old, I'm literally like, who the hell do you think think I'm a bank?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:51:50):

Who do you think I'm? And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait a minute. They think you are who you said you are. They think you are who you used to be. They have a reason to expect this from you. And maybe they can still expect it. Maybe you can take a nap and they can still expect it, but maybe you have to change the expectation. And this, I feel is why we end up robbed of power in our world, is that we set a precedent. We set an expectation, whether it's from our people pleasing or whether it's from something that was authentic for us years ago. And now I can no longer live up to that standard. And so I feel like I'm being held hostage in my life.

Mel Robbins (00:52:26):

And I think you know that this is true in any moment where you start resenting

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:52:31):

For sure

Mel Robbins (00:52:32):

People that you care about or something that you used to love. And this framework is so helpful because I always say it's like, okay, the process is broken or this has happened, but I realize that there are ways in which I've behaved in the past that just don't work.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:52:49):

They just don't work.

Mel Robbins (00:52:50):

And I was laughing to myself when you were kind of talking about how they keep moving the mar for adulthood, and I am thinking about the fact that our youngest of three just graduated from high school, and everyone's like, oh, how do you feel about being an eny nester? I'm like, you mean the birds leaving the nest? As far as I'm aware, they, they fly back. They call more. The problems are just more, it's expensive.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:53:14):

The problems are more expensive. Nobody's leaving anywhere. It just, yes. But when I was growing up, it's like, oh my gosh, you turned 18 and now you know what I mean? 18, 18, 18. But honey, we hit 18 and it's not giving what it was supposed to give.

Mel Robbins (00:53:30):

Yeah. Well, we got to change the precedent.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:53:34):

Yeah, we do.

Mel Robbins (00:53:34):

In terms of how we're going to be

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:53:36):

In the

Mel Robbins (00:53:36):

Next chapter. Oh, I got so much out of that. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you. You talked about how you just started writing about what was in your cupboard and sharing everything, and then all of a sudden you're like, maybe I'll just try going on little tours, talking to some of the people that I, next thing you know, you're writing a book, and I read that when this all started happening, you had to dare to believe in yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:54:03):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (00:54:04):

Why is it a dare?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:54:07):

Well, when you have spent more time doubting yourself than believing in yourself, it's not an easy transition. And I cringe when I see people are like, just take the leap. Take the jump. It's hard. It is really, really hard because I've only known one way of being, one way of seeing myself, and now you're telling me I'm this big, bad, bold person, and I just need to step into it and run with it, and I can't do it. It is a dare. It is not something that comes easily, but it is something that gradually picks up momentum. And so I try to challenge people. One, let's create this vision. Who is this person who you believe is within your reach to become? You open the cupboard. You know what you're working with. Who is it that you believe you can become from here? And how do we begin to gradually introduce that person to your life?

(00:55:03):

It isn't there, but you don't have to go from where you are right now to that person overnight. It is an introduction for those who you're in intimate relationship with. It's the ability that, you know what? That precedent that I set, the way that I have been showing up, it doesn't necessarily feel honest anymore. And I want you to know the most honest version of myself, and maybe things will change a little bit. I'm married. I don't want to write a book that empowers someone to be like, you know what I'm going to change? And whether they can get with it or not. When it's someone who, yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? You might want to keep that person around. Maybe they haven't done anything to you, but you still want to be authentic. You get to introduce who you are to that person. Actually, I kind of want to go back to school, or I want to start a business, or I kind of think I might be an artist. And so I bought a few things and I'd appreciate bringing you along on this journey with me. It is an introduction. And then you look up and you realize, wow, I have transformed. But transformation is a process I would say to take a little dare a baby dare. Recognizing that with each little dare we look up and we have been transformed. In the work that you're

Mel Robbins (00:56:17):

Doing, have you noticed that there's a particular dare or a particular change? You know what I mean? Even if it's just getting up earlier and creating some ritual to start your day, or if it's moving your body or if it's time for yourself. Or is there one thing that you could offer based on all of the work that you've done that you see? This really does help start the ball rolling toward the light.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:56:49):

I think the one thing that we can do is to speak who we are seeking to become in our world and atmosphere and to give it language when we give it language, whether it's to ourselves, but I think especially to other people, that we begin to stretch our environment out to make room for who we're going to become. So if I can give you a practical example, everyone who knows me knows I'm introverted. I like to be at home. I love to be at home. It is my favorite thing to do.

Mel Robbins (00:57:21):

I want to see your home now. I'm like, is my

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:57:23):

Beat. I love it. What you really want to see are my blankets and pillows where I do my best work. Awesome. Because we're going to nap together. I got to come around for a second nap. So when I started speaking and touring and stuff, someone sent me an invitation to do something globally and someone turned it down on my behalf. They're like, she's never going to do what she likes to be at home. And I had to own this fact that yes, I do like being at home, but I am really intrigued by exploring what God's doing in my life.

(00:57:54):

And I do not want to deflect opportunities because I have allowed people to believe something about me that is no longer true. And so we laughed about that. Like, oh, I'm so glad you turned down. Yeah, I love being at home. I circled back to that person. I'm like, actually, I just want you to know that it would actually be a dream to travel the world and to be able to do what I do with other people. And so if something like that comes up again, I just want you to know that I'm open for it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:58:19):

I think that we have to create openings for who we are becoming. And sometimes that's with our language. Sometimes that's with us having communication with other people. But I think the most powerful thing you can do is back it up to start putting a down payment on who you are becoming by using your words, using your language to create space for that person to be rooted in your life.

Mel Robbins (00:58:42):

It makes so much sense. It's again, another tactical example of what it means to spread the light because you're now giving yourself not only permission,

(00:58:54):

But you're giving voice to the scenes in the movie that you are now directing that are going to come.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:59:03):

Yeah, let it live outside of you.

Mel Robbins (00:59:05):

Let it live outside of you. I

Sarah Jakes Roberts (00:59:06):

Love that because oh my God, oh my God, let it live outside of you. If you let me talk, I'll get it. I'll go, oh my God. Yes, it live out. Okay. You listen to the podcast, you read the books, and it's living inside of you. You got the tools, you got the inspiration. You've got to let this live outside of you. Part of the reason that you have to let it live outside of you is that when it lives outside of you, it empties you out and makes room for more, but also it creates space outside of you for who you are becoming. That's it. Let it live outside of you. Oh my God,

Mel Robbins (00:59:41):

I have to make sure that you got that. And I am going to break this down so that you understand the importance of this, because this is everything, all of that stuff that you stuff down inside you, waiting for someday, waiting for permission, waiting to feel ready, waiting to get rid of the shame, waiting for inspiration, waiting for motivation. You just heard Sarah tell you, you have to open your mouth and let it live outside of you. And when you do that, oh my God, you create space inside of you for new amazing things to flow in, and you also create expansion and space for that thing that you want and who you're becoming to take up space.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:00:38):

Yes,

Mel Robbins (01:00:38):

You are a genius. Yay.

(01:00:44):

Wow.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:00:44):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:00:46):

It's so true.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:00:47):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:00:49):

I hadn't thought about it in the context of space because it is so painful to live your life with so many hopes and dreams for yourself and to know that there is a bigger possibility for your life, and when you trap it inside of you, it just, I know how awful that feels. And it is so beautiful to think that just starting to say it out loud, daring to believe that little act of bravery opens up the space inside and creates expansion and room for you to grow into that.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:01:37):

And I mean, it lets you exhale just because you drown, trying to keep all of that inside of you. It's hard to breathe, it's hard to believe. It's hard to show up in your world, but when you let it live outside of you, you get to exhale that. And I just want people to understand that nine times out of 10, right, it's not universal, but nine times out of 10, there is more flexibility in your environment than you are aware of. Part of the reason why we can't let it live outside of us is that we think it's going to break our circles. It's going to break our relationships. We're going to break it. I got to keep it all inside of me. I've had some people that I've lost along the way, but for the most part, people were excited to go on this journey with me.

(01:02:21):

Okay, you going back to school? Okay, I'm excited for you. Okay, what are you going to study? Okay, well, I'm going to be praying for you or let me know if you want me to quiz you. Like, oh, I need a break. Okay, what can I do to help you with the kids? You know what I mean? I'm stepping into something. Most people have more flexibility than we give them credit for, but because we let things live inside of us, we never get to experience the richness of the relationships that are connected to us as well. I just

Mel Robbins (01:02:48):

Had this visual, I don't know why. When you go to a concert and you're got the standing floor seats, you flood into the standing room. Only they can be the cheaper tickets, how the crowd's there, and you think you're in your spot, but you can always make a little room, get a little further. People are a little bit more flexible. There's a little bit more space. You think all the space is taken. It is not true,

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:03:17):

It's not taken. And they move and they say, excuse me. And you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't think that there was any room here. Right, right.

Mel Robbins (01:03:26):

And there always is.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:03:27):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:03:28):

You also talk about this idea of versions of you. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:03:33):

I don't want to sit, my husband's in the room, otherwise I steal it, but he's here. So I got to tell you that he talks about this unfolding that happens in our lives and our identity. And I think it's a very similar analogy to this versions of you. And I think we have to recognize that just like there's that version of yourself in the past that did something that makes you cringe. You're no longer that person. The reason why you feel the way that you feel about what you went through in your past is because based off of what now, you would've made a different choice. And so that's one version of you, and now you're in this version of you, but also there are other versions of you waiting to be unfolded. You just could have never told me when I was writing that blog that I would also be good at communicating. I don't consider myself a good public speaker still. I think I have a gift now, but it's not like, thank you for owning it.

(01:04:28):

I do. I think I have a gift, but it's not like I don't feel it's natural or organic to me to just gravitate to speaking, but it's obviously in me. So there are versions of you waiting to be revealed to you, introduced to you, and released into the world, and you just have to dare to not get caught up in an old version or this present version and recognize that the unfolding of that is not like this deep hard work. It is owning fully where you are now, letting those things that are inside of you live outside of you so that more expression can come to you. And I just look at my life and I feel like I've lived a thousand lives in my 35 years because I've just had all of these different versions and there's a thousand more coming. I can't wait to meet her. But first we need a nap. Yes, we must rest first. That's how the unfolding happens.

Mel Robbins (01:05:21):

I think when you hear the word power, right?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:05:24):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:05:25):

You tend to think of something that's unbreakable or in charge. What does power mean to you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:05:33):

Power is authenticity, resiliency, humility, combined.

(01:05:43):

It is a combination. If there were a nutritional fact that breaks down what power is, it is 100% authenticity, 100% resiliency, and 100% humility. And I think many times we think power is just about that resiliency side, and I get back up and I don't get knocked down, and that's what makes me powerful. But humility is owning what we do wrong. It's learning our lessons. It's taking ownership of the way that our resiliency can have negative impacts on our friendships and family. Authenticity is recognizing that sometimes I am the beast that's on stage and I'm tearing things up. And then there are other moments where I literally do need to go home. I need to be nurtured. I need to be cared for. We're a blended family with six kids. I do a lot of nurturing and that is authentic to me. And then there are other moments where authenticity is I need someone to take care of me, and I have to use my words to be the strong friend. This cocktail of authenticity, humility, and resiliency is a flow of power. Power is not a destination. It is a flow in which all three of those things have come together for the confluence of who you are. And that confluence will take you anywhere. It works anywhere you place it. I just got

Mel Robbins (01:07:05):

This image because when you see the word power or you think about it, you tend to think about authority. But the way you described it, I actually started to think about it as energy, that it is all these things flowing through you, so it's fueling the way that you show up.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:07:27):

So the book is called Power Moves, and many times people hear, first of all, it's power moves. Ignite your confidence and become a force. There's not a more intimidating title anywhere. Let's go. And now let's take a nap and then go to bed. And I think my greatest lesson in sharing the message of the book is like power is not a doing, it is a being. And power moves is not like, how do I make a power moves? It is a realization that power is fluid, that power moves and from that place of flowing in power, from that place of being powerful and allowing power to flow through you, sure, you do some things, but what's most important is being the powerful being that you are.

Mel Robbins (01:08:15):

I freaking love that. I love thinking about how you can, no matter where you are in your life, begin to allow this power to move through you. Since you have confidence as a subtitle in the book, what does confidence mean to you? And how does somebody who does not feel confident tap into it?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:08:43):

Esther Perel has the definition of confidence that I love the most. I'm going to paraphrase it. I can never do her words justice, but basically it's like having knowledge of both your gifts and strengths and also your flaws and not being moved in either direction. Confidence is the intentional owning of your existence and identity and the acceptance of it, the contentment of all of who you are, and not allowing it to be easily moved or swayed by success nor failure. And having the courage to be okay with that, to not just, okay, I settled for okay. But to really embrace that. And I think a lot of times confidence comes down to, okay, well, I need a haircut, or I need, what does the makeup look like? I was preaching one time, my wig started slipping. I took my wig off, which is worthy of doing a whole nother podcast about, but people were like, oh my gosh, how did you do that?

(01:09:52):

I'm, I mean, the hair is nice, but it's not who I am. It doesn't define me. I don't wish that it happened, but I'm not going to be afraid to be up here with a wig cap on because most people know this isn't my hair anyway. It's long one day, it's short the next week. I am so okay with who I am that I can step into any moment, no matter how humiliating it may feel on the surface and say, you know what? This is my truth, and I got to step into it. Confidence is not about how I look. Confidence is about who I am on the inside and being able to hold onto that.

Mel Robbins (01:10:27):

Amazing. And what I got is you were telling the wig story.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:10:31):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:10:32):

Is that power was moving through you, so you took the authenticity, the resilience, and the humility, and you just let that flow through you. For sure.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:10:42):

First of all, I had, so what

Mel Robbins (01:10:43):

Happened?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:10:44):

Oh, child. Okay,

Mel Robbins (01:10:45):

Listen, I got to know now. Good child. Listen. Okay. I'll tell you my most embarrassing story about a stage, and then you tell me your, well, I've got two kind of things.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:10:54):

So first of all, we're going to have a lesson in wigs,

Mel Robbins (01:10:55):

Right?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:10:56):

Okay. So not my hair. So it's not attached to anything. And so when it's on like this, it's fine, but when you start to do ponytails, there's a certain level of anchoring that you want to have. You want to sew it into some braids, you want to glue it down real good. And she had sewed it on, but she didn't sew deep enough into the braids. It was just sew onto the wig cap. So the weight of the ponytails hold the wig cap. Oh, and girl, I don't sit through an hour and a half of hair and makeup for my wig to come off. So I'm sitting there and someone's like, this is black church. So we're talking to one another. They're clapping. I've gone to some spaces. It's pretty quiet. People are just receiving, we're having a conversation. It's not uncommon for people to be waving their hands and stuff in the air. But then I saw this one, she was pulling, she was pulling, trying to signal to you. I was like, I've never seen that one before, but get it, girl. And then I went to the other side and someone else was like, I was like, is my wig? I'm sweating. I'm hot, and the glue and the wig. And so it starts sweating. And I said, listen, I knew I did math real fast. I'm like the weight of this ponytail, I could yank it, but it's going to fall back again because it's not secure to

Mel Robbins (01:12:15):

Anything.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:12:16):

And so I was in the middle of my message, I'm not going to stop preaching to go run off stage. My wig is falling off. And so I took it off, and then I'm sitting there with a wig cap and I was like, this is actually happening on any given Sunday, there's like 50,000 people streaming online. And my father wasn't there. My husband was out of town. And now I'm sitting on stage at this traditional church where I was pregnant as a teenager. Now I'm like, this is grown up. Who's overcome with a wig cap on? I take the wig off, I throw it to my sister, and I go back to preaching. And I really was just prepared to be the laughing stock of the internet. People got some jokes, but for the most part, women were like, I felt so much liberation when you did that. It felt like you can just show up in any given moment with the truth of who you are and it'll be okay. I felt confidence. I felt like, I don't know. It helped a lot of people. I spent weeks studying for this message, and me taking my wig off was the most powerful moment of the whole sermon because it gave people permission to be authentic, whatever that authenticity looked like, and to stand flatfooted in it. So yeah, I took it off.

Mel Robbins (01:13:31):

Well, the message is always bigger than the mess

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:13:33):

Always. And it taught me a valuable lesson. So on the back end, we had just recently relocated to Dallas. My husband and I, we were living in Los Angeles

(01:13:42):

And while we were in la, my husband has this incredible community. It's vibrant. It's the kind of place where a girl who got pregnant 13 had her baby at 14 could go and be like, girl, please, we got you. We love you. Show us what you know about God. And that's where I got a lot of my confidence as a speaker and as someone who preaches. And so when we went back to Dallas to kind of help my father in leadership, I'm like, I don't know if who I was there works here. So now I'm questioning, does power move? Does that same power that exists here, will it flow into where I am now? And so internally, I'm dealing with these insecurities, this uncertainty that Sunday when I took my wig off, it really was a message for me from God that the most authentic version of who you are has been anointed to help from Dallas, from this church, from this platform.

(01:14:32):

If you will just be who you are, I will take care of the rest. And this moment that would've been something that most people laugh at, became this thing that helped so many people feel comfortable in their own skin to own who they were. I looked at, there was this lady, she had thrown her wig off and it was on stage. I'm like, now mine was slipping. That's why I took mine off. Why is yours on all? But she's like solidarity, tired of pretending, tired of pretending to have it all together. It's like this moment where people are like, this is who I am, accepted. And so it really was a blessing in disguise. It really was.

Mel Robbins (01:15:07):

It was a direct message to you. For

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:15:09):

Sure.

Mel Robbins (01:15:10):

For sure. There are no accidents.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:15:11):

He can text me next time.

Mel Robbins (01:15:12):

Yeah. Well, and on the theme of power, why would you even question? Of course, power moves because if you try to block a power surge, it will blow everything up in its wake.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:15:27):

Okay, me. And we could talk for a long time because when we are doing something new, no matter how much we have mastered in the past, there is an opportunity for insecurity, doubt, and failure to convince us that we are not equipped to step into something new.

(01:15:45):

And I wrote this book coming off the heels of that moment, because if we can really grasp this concept that power is fluid, then the power that we experienced in whatever stage of our life that has passed, it flows into where we are now. It may have a different expression, it may be in a different city. You may have been divorced and now you're married again. You may have been hands-on with the kids and now you're learning who you are. Now that you no longer have children. And you can feel fragile in the process, but power flows. And so to be able to ask ourselves, I know what power looked like then, but what does power look like for me now is one of the greatest questions we can ask ourselves because it honors the fact that there is power in this moment. I just have to figure out how to tap into and into flow with what power looks like now.

Mel Robbins (01:16:40):

Well, I got to tell you something. I feel I have to tell you this. Please. Okay. I think you know this, and I feel permission to say this to you, this bluntly because you are a woman of deep faith who has a direct connection to God. But when you talked about getting pregnant at 13 in the middle of the kind of purity culture, I just had this unbelievable sentence in my head. I was like, well, that was on purpose because that was meant to happen for you to disrupt that culture and for you to be the embodiment of a entirely different definition of a godly woman.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:17:46):

Thank you.

(01:17:53):

I think we needed another definition. Thank you.

Mel Robbins (01:17:58):

You had to have thought that before.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:18:00):

No, no.

Mel Robbins (01:18:02):

Well, you continue to do it. As everything unfolds, you continue to open the door for your entire community to envision what it means to be a woman in an entirely different way. And it's not about one version. It's about the freedom and the power that flows through you when you just are you,

(01:18:34):

That you're not defined by what you do. You're not defined by the mistakes that you made. You're certainly not defined by whether or not you have your virginity or not, that you can literally be who you want to be beyond gender, beyond the wig, beyond any mistakes that you've made. And you are the embodiment of that as somebody that's just meeting you and that has watched your life from afar and is inspired by your work. There's no doubt in my mind that that is a thousand percent the work that is getting done through your life. You're not aware of it, but it's very clear in the context of your entire life story and your mission and the work that you have just been called to put out into the world that is actually what's happening.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:19:26):

It makes so much makes sense to me. It does. It makes so much, makes sense to me. There is no other explanation

Mel Robbins (01:19:35):

When you think about how much faith you have, and you talk about being the embodiment of something and the intentionality of something. Let's just stay with the word intentionality. What if you did believe, because I know you and I both believe this, that even those things that were so cringey in the moment, we know when we get to the end of the movie and we look back at the entire thing that happened, everything had an order to it. And I think one of the most incredible skills in life that you have, that I know that I have, that I am trying to help other people have is the ability to both stand in this moment, in this frame of your movie and look back and say, oh, of course. All of those things led here. And of course, I would never be here holding the hand of the little me saying, take this all in. Look at how far we've come without that thing that I once hated, hated, and now I have created room to love and be compassionate for. But I can also stand in this frame and look ahead and know that this is leading somewhere extraordinary. And that is what I felt compelled to tell you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:21:02):

I think the idea of we needed another version of what it means to be a woman of God in a culture where there's literally one road, one path, and for the undeniable grace, there's just no reason for the swell of influence. There's no reason. And I think I've like actually there is a reason. Well there. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. I think I've the intentionality of God to in the midst of, while one thing is rampant, to be like, you know what? I am going to allow this to happen. It's not going to make sense to anyone, but in 20 years it's going to make sense because I'm going to use all of these things to create this version of Sarah that is relatable, untouchable for a generation that's been lost.

Mel Robbins (01:21:59):

And you can't actually be relatable and untouchable without that. And the other piece of this that really struck me is the word undeniable. And when you said there's only one path, that's actually not true. We've just put the infinite other paths in a cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:22:21):

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that is why I love doing what I do. And I love what woman evolve is because there are all of these women with all of these different paths that have been stuffed in the cupboard, and now they're beginning to believe that maybe there's another path. Maybe there's not just one path, maybe based off of where I come from in Chicago and South Africa, maybe we all have a unique path. And I don't have to try and fit myself into this one way of being or disqualify myself because I don't fit in this. That is what makes woman evolve what it is.

Mel Robbins (01:22:57):

And I see that because you just also said there's just no other explanation. And I often think about that in my own story, facing bankruptcy, struggling with anxiety. I have some dumb idea when I am drunk on bourbon to launch myself out of bed like a rocket so I can move fast enough to beat the anxiety and the series of unexplainable events and coincidences. And there's no other explanation than this divine order. And so I am so proud of myself for saying it to you and actually letting it live outside of me so that it could create space for you. If the person listening takes just one thing from the extraordinary amount of wisdom that you have poured into us today, and they focus on one action, what do you want them to do?

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:24:13):

I would say to open that cabinet, open that cabinet, and look at every single ingredient of you. And to trust that every ingredient is going to be used in the full edit of your story. And for those of you who know a little bit about cooking, you know that there are some ingredients that we buy thinking that we're going to use them, and then it gets dusty because we never actually used it. There are probably some things that you have allowed to get dusty, some dreams, some gifts, some memories that you like, that they have dust on them because it makes it harder for you to see them. And I would tell you to dust those ingredients off, to put 'em out on the counter and to start dreaming.

Mel Robbins (01:25:17):

What are your parting words? Secure your

Sarah Jakes Roberts (01:25:21):

Wig.

Mel Robbins (01:25:25):

Thank you for being with Sarah Jakes Roberts and me today. I wanted to be sure to tell you in case no one else does that. I love you and I know Sarah loves you too, for sure. And we believe in you. And open up the cabinet and go cook up a fricking five star meal. And I'll talk to you in a few days. And for you sitting here watching with me on YouTube, I just want to say please share this with somebody. Don't just sit and watch. Please do something and take a minute and subscribe to this channel. It's really a way that you can support me in bringing you new videos every single day. And I'm sure you're looking for something really inspiring to watch, to really move you. So I want you to check out this video next.

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Guests Appearing in this Episode

Sarah Jakes Roberts

Sarah Jakes Roberts is a NYT bestselling author, speaker, and pastor empowering women to embrace their purpose and rise above life’s challenges.

Books
Undoubtedly, there are moments when hope is obscure. That's because hope has many hiding places. It hides behind heartbreak, camouflages in stress, and disguises itself in grief. It only takes a few disappointments before our expectations are hijacked by doubt and disbelief. Hope is easy to lose and hard to find, but there is never a season when hope is out of reach.

Inspiring you towards the pursuit of hope with a lens of compassion, Sarah serves as a guide who exposes the hidden hope that awaits you each day.
Podcast: Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts
In a world of mixed messages, the Woman Evolve Podcast is blending faith with contemporary culture and keeping it all the way real! Host Sarah Jakes Roberts and guests will revolutionize the airwaves with down-to-earth convos that'll edify every aspect of the woman. This show has a distinct way of defying boundaries and reaching those who are seeking to make peace with their past, maximize their present, and unequivocally evolve. We're calling out all of our homegirls and a few good fellas to tap in weekly!

Resources

- Forbes: How forgiveness can help transform your life
- Los Angeles Times: Sarah Jakes Roberts remaking the image of the modern pastor
- Survey: 80% of women don’t feel like they’re enough.
- Body Image Statistics: 91% of women don’t like their bodies.
- Harvard Business Review: How to stop obsessing over your mistakes
- Harvard Business Review: How to move past an embarrassing moment
- Forbes: 75% of female executives have imposter syndrome.
- Psychology Today: Why so many men feel inadequate.
- Journal of Education and Training Studies: Self-esteem and happiness.
- Hey Sigmund: How to stop anxiety intruding on your decisions.
- University of California, Berkeley: Research shows 3 ways to see meaning in life.
- Harvard Business Review: Stop being so hard on yourself.
- The Atlantic: Big dreams and small actions go together.
- Neuroscience News: Your dreams and your personality are linked.
- New York Times: Stuck in a rut? You’re not alone
- UC, Berkeley: Why your brain needs to dream.
- Harvard Business Review: How to practice reflective thinking
- National Library of Medicine: The neuroscience of goals and behavior change

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2 Million Readers. 1 Life-Changing Newsletter

Related Episodes

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2 Million Readers.
1 Life-Changing Newsletter