How To Stop Waking Up Feeling Tired: 7 Tips From a Harvard Researcher

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:26:43):

This is such a good question, and if you have a partner, sleep is a social behavior. It's kind of funny to think of it that way, but it really is.

 

Mel Robbins (00:26:49):

What do you mean by that?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:26:51):

You co-sleep largely if you're in a relationship. So it's a social phenomenon. It's true. And so if your partner snores, it's kind of probably interrupt the quality of your sleep. And so I would encourage you to think about, again, kind of putting sleep at the center. Granted, I'm biased, this is what I do for a living. But when we can do that and really say critically, how can we optimize for sleep that will improve your relationship, improve your productivity at work, how you care for your children, so many positive things. And then you have to ask yourself, am I creating lasting memories by sleeping together with my partner? This term is actually, this is termed a sleep divorce. What I'm about to talk about sleeping separately, that's

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:34):

A terrible name, which

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:27:34):

Is so negative. Totally, totally with a better name. I couldn't agree more. I have some friends who are like, look, it's a sleep marriage. It literally is how I'm able to stay in this marriage and should be, for a number of reasons, should have sex bed and then a sleep bed. We need to make this era

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:49):

In terms of the name of it.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:27:51):

That's what people did in the Victorian era, right? And even earlier than that, and very wealthy individuals would always do

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:57):

That, thought they had mistresses, but I thought that's why they were not sleeping together. But

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:28:02):

That might've been a factor. So you recommend that just and ask yourself as a couple, how can we be the best possible couple that we can be? How can we be the best parents, succeed in our careers, love each other? And you can do that with good sleep. And if your sleep is interrupting each other's maybe one's snoring, maybe one keeps a different schedule, one's a shift worker. If you're able to sleep separately, why not? And again, doing away with this term, sleep, divorce, I think we should coin sleep marriage instead because again, you're just not creating lasting memories when you're sleeping. Sometimes it's nice to cuddle, but you could do that and then slip into your separate bedroom where you're going to get the sleep that will support your personal waking success and again, allow you to thrive in that relationship. Now, there are some people for whom that will be challenging.

 

(00:28:49):

Maybe you don't have a guest room that you could oust your husband or your partner to go to. So if that's the situation for you, think about the ways that you could buffer against that disruption that your partner imposes on your sleep like a pillow wall and earplugs, a pillow wall. Earplugs and earplugs that block against 60 decibels are higher. So it's just a specific type of earplug and they have them at the drugstore, every drugstore, white noise, they're widely available. Look into one of these. It creates kind of a background level of noise that then can dampen the impact of intermittent noise, which is often the challenge, right? It's someone getting up to an alarm clock or someone snoring.

 

Mel Robbins (00:29:27):

I'm going to try that. That's so simple and hearing it from you makes me know that it's actually going to work. What is a circadian rhythm? Dr. Robbins

Mel Robbins (00:30:31):

That almost made me want to go supercalifragilistic, right?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:30:35):

Super cal or nucleus, okay, have you ever want to impress someone at a cocktail party? That sciencey term is the way to do it. How do we say it again? Super charismatic nucleus. Say that 10 times fast,

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:45):

Right? Super charismatic

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:30:46):

Nucleus. Yes, bravo

 

(00:30:48):

Nailed it. So that's the central pacemaker of this biological clock that we have inside us. And what's so interesting is virtually every part of the body operates in a circadian like fashion, firing it sometimes and then relaxing and unwinding at other times even down to the cellular level, believe it or not. So this system, this internal circuitry is not meant to make quick changes. Hundreds of years ago, we weren't flying on airplanes all around the world. So understanding that internal system, really, I kind of like to liken it to a big piece of machinery from World War I that just moves slowly. And really when light changes in our environment, it's maybe a couple seconds a day, not much more, but we fly in airplanes, we hop in airplanes and fly to new time zones and wonder why we just struggle with brain fog with sleep. And it's because there's a mismatch between our internal biological rhythms and the new pattern of light and darkness and social time. So the clock on the wall when you land in London is of course going to be different than your internal biological clock. So understanding these principles can better set us up for success when it comes to our sleep.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:59):

So I have a couple questions. This is fascinating first of all, so thank you for breaking this down. One of the things that you also recommend is getting light in the morning. Why does this matter when it comes to your circadian rhythm and being a better sleeper?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:32:14):

So that tiny brain region that we talked about where the circadian rhythm is housed, is located right behind the eyeball in the brain. So the brain takes in information about the presence or absence of light through the eye, and then that travels along the optic chiasm to the charismatic nucleus really names here, optic chiasm super. Yes, we're going to sound very whatever. It's very sexy field of study Dr. Robinson. So light comes in through the eyes and triggers the super charismatic nucleus or the kind of cognitive home for our circadian rhythm, and then that triggering allows for the secretion of melatonin when we're in the absence of light. So we've all heard that term and it's all over the shelves of every grocery store offering you the promise of good night's sleep. But it also is a hormone that's secreted in the brain in this home of our circadian rhythm, the schematic nucleus, and that hormone is secreted when we go out into a dark environment and we see the sunset and then the process of melatonin secretion begins and that allows us to then sleep. Then conversely, when we wake up, that internal circuitry gets a signal through the eyes that travels to that brain region that says, oh, alright, melatonin, you're done. It's time to become alert and awake and going outside to get some natural sunlight in the morning is really vitally important because that stops the floodgates of melatonin and triggers the brain to say, ah, alright, we're in the awake phase of our circadian rhythm.

 

Mel Robbins (00:33:43):

So what happens if you step outside and it's a cloudy or rainy day? No

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:33:48):

Problem. Does this still work? No problem. It's does that work? Because it's amazing the power of sunlight in our environment. And so even if it's a cloudy day, getting outside will get you the sunlight exposure that you need into your eyes to stop the floodgates of melatonin and begin your day. It's a myth that a cloudy day might hamper that or dampen that ability.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:09):

And how long do I need to be outside? So I've rolled out a bed, I've opened up the curtains being inside and looking out the window. Not enough. I got to step outside. I got to get the uvs and my eyeballs, but how long am I standing out there, Dr. Robinson?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:34:23):

Great question. Now I think it's so important. This is so aligned with your work, but meeting people where they are. I'm not saying we all need to be out walking for an hour before we get to work, but find a way to fit it into your schedule and think carefully. Where could I get a little bit more sunlight? And if that's okay, I get up, I make my coffee, I have to drive 45 minutes, and maybe you park your car farther away from your office building, you walk for three minutes, give me five minutes. Amazing. Or if you're commuting on the subway, try to extend another stop walk. One more stop before you go underground, walk to your coffee or park your car instead of doing the drive-through. I think these little micro habits can go so far.

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:04):

Well, I also think if you know that the reason why you're doing this is because you are using UV rays to manually reset the circadian rhythm in your body to go, okay, we're starting to practice. The thing I'm doing right now when I wake up is helping my body do what it's designed to do, which is sleep. What about for somebody that's listening who wakes up before the sun is even out, so you are going to work or to school or you live in a part of the world where it's really dark out when you wake up, what can you do?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:35:35):

Such a great question. And there are more than 25 million Americans who work on shift schedules. So going to work and coming back from work at times that are mismatched with the patterns of light and darkness in our environment. And for all of the reasons that we just talked about, the importance of sunlight exposure, those individuals can really struggle. The good news is there are a lot of technologies that you can buy and essentially if you're an office employee outside the traditional nine to five, get one of these lights that ideally is blue daylight spectrum and you can sit in front of that light, turn it on high when you get to the office because what you want to do is you want to trick your body into thinking that that's sunrise. If that's your work schedule an early start, or conversely, if you're starting your day at nine or 10:00 PM when it's dark, we'll talk because

 

Mel Robbins (00:36:18):

You're working an overnight shift. I've done that and you feel like a zombie. Is this something though, just to make sure, because I know people are going to be like, okay, where do I blah? Is this something that you can literally buy at a retailer or go on Amazon and just Google blue daylight spectrum light and you can purchase one? You don't need a prescription from a sleep researcher.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:36:34):

Essentially, these technologies are widely available and if you look for the lights that say specifically their blue daylight spectrum, because we really want that light being strong enough to emulate the sun, and so it can be strong enough that it's actually a treatment for seasonal affective disorder because some of them are that potent and you sit in front of them and don't stare at it anymore than you would the sun. But that can be a helpful part of adapting to a shift schedule.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:37:24):

Really good question. I think one of the key questions to ask yourself is where can I find some normalcy in my personal schedule? And if you're keeping what we call a yo-yo schedule falling asleep at one time, one night, another time the next night, another time the next night, is that in your control? Is it maybe that just the hours fly and you're leaning in, maybe you're watching another episode on streaming, and then you get an Instagram alert and then suddenly it's way past your bedtime and you're looking at a short sleep window. So really ask yourself, are you doing this? And is it in your control? And if you're willing to try this out, what you could do if you do have control over your schedule, look at your typical week. What is the earliest time that you have to wake up? Is it say seven o'clock for an 8:00 AM meeting and that allows you time to get ready and do your commute and get your light exposure? Yeah, so let's make it 6 45. Sun might not be up then unless it's summertime, but so pick that time and that's your wake time. And ideally that's your alarm clock seven days of the week. Because if we sleep in, we really recommend no more than an hour, much more than that throws that internal circuitry out of whack.

 

Mel Robbins (00:38:36):

Wait a minute. So if I sleep in on the weekend more than an hour, I'm throwing my circadian rhythm

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:38:42):

Internal system much more than an hour. And we all know this. We just went through daylight saving time and that one hour is enough to throw all of us out of sink, right?

 

Mel Robbins (00:38:52):

So

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:38:52):

Much more than an hour is not recommended. So if you look at your typical week and say, what is my earliest wake up time? And then you've hit your target, wake up time for the week, again, sleeping in an hour, absolutely fine, but much more than that. Try to avoid, but then count back, give yourself a full nine hours because our biological need for sleep is individual. Some people do very well on seven and some people do much better on nine. And it's in part genetically kind of hardwired. And so if you had two parents that were longer sleepers, you're truly sleeping eight or nine hours a night, you might be a longer sleeper. And then if you had two short sleeping parents, you might be lucky and really truly only need closer to seven. But if you count back nine, that could maybe add a little bit of time for your wind down routine. So those nine hours countdown and that's your target, fall asleep time or I should say get ready for bed time.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:41:09):

It's a really great question. Morning light exposure is helpful and good, but actually getting exposure all across the typical day is vitally important. Actually, in the afternoon is just as important as the morning. So I didn't mean to privilege the morning over the afternoon, but instead getting exposure to fresh air and natural light over the course of the day is extremely important to help our body get, okay, we're still in the wake phase. It's not quite sleep yet. And then going into darkness is equally as important as exposure to light during the day because that absence of light does the converse. It allows for the secretion of melatonin for the brain to say, ah, we're approaching bedtime. Let's start to power down. And so unfortunately, many of us have bright blue light emitting devices all around us. Not only our light bulbs, but also the devices that we carry around with us, our smartphones, our tablets, our computer screens.

 

(00:42:07):

Now in a perfect world, we would be able to unplug even give me 15 minutes before bedtime and start small. If you find that you're a little bit addicted to your phone, it's hard to put it down. Start with maybe five minutes if you could swipe to airplane mode, amazing. And I think there's something also powerful about that to say, I'm off for the night. I might be receiving messages, but they can wait until the morning and think about all day long. We do things for other people in our careers, in our personal lives. We care for children, we care for older adults, we spouses, we help and support people in the workplace. And that another mindset is this is my time at night for me

 

(00:42:47):

And really consciously, purposefully turning your phone off. So if you find yourself a little bit addicted to your phone, start small. Try just five minutes before you want to be falling asleep. Switch your phone off, try to give yourself at least a little bit of a buffer, and then maybe work up to 15, maybe work up to 30 minutes. Now, if you're telling me, look, I'm a student. I have work to do. I'm a busy professional. I have stuff I need to be doing up until the minute I fall asleep. I would implore you just to ask yourself, is there anything off screens that I can do at night? Do all your screen work during the day, and if it's reading a couple emails even and you can print them out or reading a book or anything that you can shift from your workday into non-screen time and do that at night. So I think there's even to meet a way to meet even the busiest of people where they are.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:43:58):

I really agree with you.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:59):

I think that for all

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:44:00):

Of us, even the most busy person,

 

Mel Robbins (00:44:02):

Honestly, if you can't put your phone on airplane or stick it in the other room and give yourself five measly minutes, then don't be coming here and complaining about how tired you are. That's the thing that you have to understand is that the research is very clear and it's going to be very simple. I didn't say easy. It's going to be simple to put into your life, but you've got to want to get a good night's sleep. You've got to to stop waking up tired and exhausted. And so really stop and think if this is you, that you're that addicted to work or that addicted to your phone that you cannot carve out five minutes, you're never going to change this. And so I also am going to come back to the math because this is why it becomes really important to get very specific with yourself. If you're going to wake up at six and you're going to back up the nine hours like Dr. Robbins is telling you to do, and she's also saying, you got to have a buffer. You got to have a buffer from the last screen time to when you're going to start falling asleep, then maybe you need to put an alarm in your phone at eight forty five because that's the time you got to stop looking at the darn thing.

 

(00:45:12):

And so anyway, you're nice. I am not. I'm just like, you can't complain about something and expect it to change. You got to do

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:45:20):

Something. Totally. And it comes back to this idea that good sleep actually does take a little bit of work, and it's not going to come easy. But we get so frustrated when we're like, I'm here. I'm trying. I'm doing everything, but being really critical. I love your points about what, really be honest with yourself, right? Do you really need to be on social media for 20 minutes before bedtime? No, you don't.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:39):

You don't.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:45:40):

Totally.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:42):

And that's the thing. I know we're all tired and there's periods of your life where there are very real things going on that are beating you up. But I think for most of us need to have a moment of honesty with ourselves that we are making ourselves exhausted. We are giving our attention and our brain power over to the phone and social media and to all of these screens, and we are not taking the wind down routine seriously. And so if you are serious about wanting to feel more energized, if you're serious about getting better sleep, you got to try what Dr. Robbins is telling you, and you're not going to like it because you're used to just kind of going through the thing.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:46:22):

It's not sexy. I'm not here to say, drink a couple glasses of wine and then spend some time on social media. But what really works when it comes to sleep is old school stuff. It's getting off of our screens. It's powering down, making a cup of tea. I love the Swedish tradition of haga, this idea of warm, cozy time before bed. The Swedish culture has a word for this. And I think as Americans, we think, I'm just going to write reports. I'm going to send emails until the moment that I want to be falling asleep. And then so many of us wonder why we struggle. But even just a couple minutes and then maybe build up to 10 minutes and then maybe 15 and maybe 30 off of your phone or your screens or your laptop before bedtime can do a world of good because all those devices are engaging the prefrontal cortex, the planning, the thinking part of the brain, and in many times, giving you exposure that mimics the sun, right? When you want to be falling asleep. So it's this cocktail of sleep inhibitors really, when you think about it.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:47:28):

Well, some swear by an episode of Seinfeld or friends, or some people listen to podcasts also, and that's part of their ritual. And I will say, if it's not broken, don't fix it. If that works for you and you don't find that it really being honest with yourself, it doesn't wake you up because some people will maybe fall asleep to that, but maybe they don't have a timer on. And then when there's a louder part of the show, it'll wake them up and then they'll go back to sleep and people will say, oh, no, no, it's fine. It's what I do every night. But what we really want to work towards is a night of uninterrupted sleep.

 

Mel Robbins (00:48:02):

What happens if you get up in the middle of the night? I used to all the time, two 14 was my number, two 14, Mel Robbins up, got to go to the bathroom. What happens if you're up in the middle of the night? And I know I'm not supposed to look at my phone, but I would pick it up and I'd use it as a flashlight, and then I'd get to the toilet, Dr. Robbins, and I'd flip that sucker over, and next thing you know, I'm surfing social media or checking out text messages while I'm going in the bathroom in the middle of the night. What does that blue light exposure do when you look at your phone once you wake

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:48:32):

Up? It's really come in and also kind of the rote procedure of waking up, whether it's in the middle of the night, whether it's in the morning and reaching right for your phone. It's kind of like an automatic response, right, that we've conditioned ourselves to do. A couple suggestions for that. And again, this kind of comes back to the idea of these old school tricks, but a nightlight in your hallway sensor activated nightlights, not only for your hallway, but maybe also they have them for the rim of your toilet. It's a little bit gross, but that allows you to, if you have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, get there.

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:03):

Well, does it make it harder to fall asleep if you look at your phone when you wake up in the middle of the night?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:49:08):

So the reason I bring up lights is that can guide you and reduce your reliance on your smartphone to get to where you need to go.

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:14):

Yes.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:49:14):

When it comes to picking up the phone though, maybe not for the flashlight function, but just to maybe see if you got any messages. You're like, I'm up. I might as well be productive,

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:23):

Or I'm bored, or I can't fall asleep, so I'm just going to look at my phone. Done. All of these

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:49:27):

Things, coming back to that idea of working towards consolidated sleep. So when you get up the next time, if this is anyone listening the next time, take it in stride. That's the first thing. Don't kick yourself because it's so easy to say, oh, I'm up again, and then your cortisol spikes, and then it's harder for us to fall asleep, take it in stride, get up and say, oh, do I need to use the bathroom? Go to the bathroom, and then crawl back into bed. Resist looking at the phone, crawl back into bed and try again. And we'll go through a great bedtime routine. But every good routine will culminate with a couple final things. And if it's prayer for you, if it's progressive muscle relaxation, clenching and releasing different muscle groups, if it's closing your eyes when you crawl into the sheets and focusing on one good thing from our day, I think that could be one small thing that we could all do and really benefit from, but focus on one small thing, whatever it is that those final steps of the routine that get you to sleep, come back to those when you're awake in the middle of the night, crawl back into bed, do that last progressive muscle relaxation or kind of gratitude exercise, and then try again.

 

(00:50:33):

Close the eyes and slip off. And if that voice, again rears its ugly head of, oh, not again, not again, I'm up. That is when you get out of bed,

 

Mel Robbins (00:50:45):

We get

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:50:45):

Out of bed and the sounds antithetical. You're like, you're a sleep researcher. I, I'm in bed. I stay here. But wrong. If we stay in bed and we're tossing and turning either at the beginning of our sleep episode or if we wake up and struggle to fall back asleep, we're starting to associate our bed with stress. It's one of the biggest myths. People often will tell us on our survey is, oh, if I stay in bed, I'll get some sleep. And it's better right than if I got out of bed wrong. Because we start to toss and turn. We start to increase the temperature of our bedroom environment, which is not good. And then we start to identify, our bed is a place where we experience insomnia. We wake up at two 14 and we start to tell ourselves these stories, and then they become a reality

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:28):

Because now you're training yourself that This is what I do at two 14.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:51:30):

Exactly. You're classically conditioning yourself to look at your bed as a stressful place. So you want to break that cycle. As soon as that voice comes on and says, oh, not again, I'm up. That is when you want to condition yourself instead to get out of bed, keep the light low, and go in a crisscross applesauce and do a meditation exercise, a breathing exercise on the floor or on an armchair. Read a couple pages of a book, ideally with a lamp that has a sleep friendly light bulb. These are also widely available and not expensive. Install all sleep friendly bulbs in your room. Get all of the fluorescence out of there, and if you are really struggling, maybe read a couple pages in a book or really do anything that's boring. It's going to put you back to sleep. Fold socks. I love to set. Your spouse will love you. Do all the boring house chores that you find to be so horrific. Save that for when you have some insomnia like symptoms and come back to those.

 

Mel Robbins (00:52:25):

So what would you say to somebody who thinks they're a bad sleeper?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:52:28):

Well, I think first, changing the narrative to yourself is the first step to say, I got this. I'm not a bad sleeper, no big deal. I'm struggling a little bit. It'll come back and we're going to talk about the tools to come to and really have in your toolkit when problems rear their ugly head because they do for all of us, people always come to me and they're like, isn't your sleep perfect? I'm like, no, of course not. I'm a mom of two. I have a busy career, a relationship, so many things going on for all of us that can hinder our ability to get good quality sleep. So number one, changing the narrative that you tell yourself and then pulling on some of the levers of change that we're going to talk about. Try them all. Let me cut out caffeine and see if that helps. Let me cut out alcohol. Let me see if that helps. Let me move my dinner three hours earlier. Let me out a meditation technique or routine to my power down ritual, but trying all of these, the sweet and the constellation of healthy sleep strategies. That's the second step. Now if you've done all of and really done it, some people are like, oh, I've tried that. I've tried that.

 

Mel Robbins (00:53:29):

Yeah, sure.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:53:30):

Oh, it didn't work. But really given it a shot, thought about a week and really gone ham on all of these strategies. And if you're really still struggling, chronically struggling to fall asleep, I'm talking 20 or more minutes every single night, 30 40 minutes to fall asleep. Or if you're up every single night, can't fall back asleep, wired. Or if you are practicing all the dictates of the healthy sleep strategies that we're going to talk about and you're still like, I think I'm waking up. Those are sleep disorders and that's where the sleep strategies will not work. And you do need to seek medical attention before you can start to reap the benefits of some of these behavioral tips and strategies.

 

Mel Robbins (00:54:07):

Terrific. That's super clear. One of the levers that you're teaching us that you can pull based on the research is also temperature. Temperature is something that can help you fall asleep. And how is temperature related to getting better sleep?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:54:22):

Temperature is a really important consideration that's often overlooked. I think a lot of us think you want a warm and cozy environment for sleep, right? You want lots of blankets and you want to be warm and cozy, but if you find that you're waking up maybe in a sweat or with the chills, that could be a sign that you personally are not in the right range for you. And if you're in the menopausal period, you might need to be on the cooler side even below the cooler range, 65 or below, or maybe look into some products or things that you could have in your bedroom environment to purposefully cool you further because of some of the challenges there. And airflow is another great strategy in that life stage.

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:03):

What does airflow mean?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:55:05):

Generally during sleep at night, we want to have mattresses, pillows, things in our environment that are promoting airflow and temperature regulation. Anything that's going to be kind of blocking airflow or not be breathable would then of course increase temperature.

 

Mel Robbins (00:55:21):

I thought breathable meant you pick up the comforter and flap it like a wing to try to fan yourself, but I know exactly what you're talking about that if it's a fabric that's blocking your ability to regulate your temperature,

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:55:33):

Lower core body temperature is associated with sleep onset. So that is ideal, especially to help us fall asleep. But over the course of our sleep at night, there are stages where we're not able to. Here's another fun science term, thermal regulate. In other words, shiver if we're cold or sweat if we're hot. And so because of we'll be going in and out of different sleep stages and in some of those stages we're not able to regulate our temperature. You want to be in a range that's called thermal neutral. So about 65 to 68 is generally that range where if you're in that stage where you're not able to engage in those shivering or sweating, you will be fine because you're in the range where you can maintain an appropriate body temperature.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:56:34):

Well, if you're able to also think about what temperature it is outside, and so right now in Boston, it's perfect to have your windows open if you're able to, because not everyone is in an environment that they're able to open their window. Maybe it's loud, maybe there are noises outside their window. But if you are able to open the window, what an amazing thing, right? You get fresh air regulating your bedroom environment. So be mindful of the temperature outside, but if you're setting you have central air, think about that range 65 to 68, it's not that wide. So maybe start at 65 and if you find yourself too cold, then maybe go up to 66 or 67 or 68. So there is a lot of individual preference in that range. And also the bedroom environment and what you have on the bed specifically will matter. So if you have a very light blanket, then you could maybe get by on the higher end of the spectrum. Or if you really like cozy blankets, then you might want to go down to 65.

 

Mel Robbins (00:57:28):

Can you describe the perfect bedroom to get a better night's sleep?

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:57:32):

I love talking about the bedroom because I think it's one place where we could all make small changes and you want to set yourself up for success in your bedroom, and I want you really to walk in and feel instantly soothed. Ask yourself tonight when you walk into your bedroom, what in here is stressing me out? And remove it If it's an alarm clock that you hate, if it's a pillow that you hate, get it out. And I think sometimes upgrading the pillows, the mattress are really important. Sometimes people can't even tell me when they bought their mattress or their pillows and these things do not last forever. So like you were saying, I loved your comments. You look forward, you snuggle into your sheets and it's this amazing feeling. I want you listening to want that moment of slipping in and just loving your bed and feeling instantly relaxed and ready for sleep and looking forward to it.

 

(00:58:25):

But the design of a great bedroom has a couple other things. Again, we talked about temperature hopefully or in the 65 to 68 degree range. Dark is also vital. Our eyelids are some of the thinnest pieces of skin on our bodies. And even light from a cable box or coming through a curtain from light outside your bedroom environment can be enough to disrupt your sleep, believe it or not. So I want your bed pitch black walk in tonight after sunset, and you can put tape masking tape or duct tape over any light sources. Sometimes cable boxes have little lights on them, chargers, anything that's a light emitting source. Get that out of the bedroom because then a pitch black environment will do you so much good and really set you up for success from the standpoint of melatonin secreting and all the things that are so necessary to help you fall asleep.

 

Mel Robbins (00:59:18):

I love this. So tonight when you walk into your, or after you're done listening to this, walk into your bedroom, what is in there that's stressing you out? And I can think about periods in my life where there were piles of laundry in my bedroom and things that I needed to do and all of that stuff that wasn't finished would stress me out. And so reminder, clear on anything

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (00:59:42):

Of your to-do list.

 

Mel Robbins (00:59:43):

Yeah, it's a reminder of your to-do list. So declutter your room. You want the temperature between 65 and 68. You want to have a pitch black environment and to the extent it's within your reach, get a mattress that you love. Invest in coziness in your sheets and in your bedding. And don't be embarrassed if you've had the same thing for a long time. Chris and I just replaced our mattress. We've been sleeping on it for 22 years. The same mattress, everybody. So if you are in that camp, your friend Mel Robbins just got a new mattress. So I love

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:00:18):

The alone. I love that. The key thing is if you're telling me you have neck pain, your mattress just isn't supporting you, then that's a great time to, and if your mattress lasts 20 years, amazing. Wonderful. Right? Keep it so good for the environment. By the way, these things are not, they're full of material that sometimes aren't disposable or what's the word, not disposable,

 

Mel Robbins (01:00:39):

Recyclable.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:00:40):

Yeah, they're full of materials that aren't necessarily recyclable. And so the key thing is just, is it not promoting airflow? Is it not supporting you? You're waking up with neck pain. Those can be signs that it might be time for a new mattress.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:00:59):

My students love to tell me this. They're like,

 

Mel Robbins (01:01:02):

You're wrong.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:01:03):

I'll drink and I'll put myself right to sleep. Yes, alcohol. There's some truth in that statement though. What our young people will tell us that alcohol will put you to sleep. It's great at reducing the term that we refer to sleep latency, which is falling the time it takes us to fall asleep. But what alcohol does is it starts to destroy the quality of our sleep. The idea that this is a good thing for sleep is completely wrong. It's one of our biggest myths about sleep, that alcohol and nightcap is a good thing. Depending on your body mass and your tolerance, one dose might be okay, but much more than that will start to virtually destroy the quality of your sleep. You've probably all been there.

 

Mel Robbins (01:01:45):

I mean, I wake when I drink, I always wake up in the middle of the night. I fall asleep quickly, but I do not stay asleep.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:01:54):

And it's not restorative. You wake up, even if you spent eight or nine or 10 hours sleeping, you often feel like you haven't slept a wink because the structure of our sleep starts to change and it simply disrupts that architecture. So it, it's very different than the structure of a natural sleep without alcohol. So it's very common for someone to wake up after a night of even just maybe one or two glasses and not feeling restored.

 

Mel Robbins (01:02:18):

Well, I think universally speaking, when somebody does either dry January or they stop drinking or they go for periods of time where they don't drink better, sleep is 100% what people talk about.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:02:30):

Absolutely. And it's amazing, right? When we think about taking someone who drinks every night and then they are like, wow, they do dry January and it's this light bulb. And so finding ways to extend those benefits into our calendar year, and even if it's Monday through Wednesday, you're going to be dry. I think sometimes those very clear boundaries are so helpful because after a long day it is so easy to say, oh, I earned it. I had a long night with the kids, a long day with the kids or this colleague at work, or this deadline is stressing me out. Oh, I earned it. But if we have structures in place to say, oh, no, and make it fun, substitute a fun cup of tea ritual with your partner.

 

Mel Robbins (01:03:17): 

I think what you're here teaching us is what you've earned is a great night's sleep. And giving yourself the gift of better sleep is going to be a better reward than the glass of wine that sort of numbs you out. 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:03:48):

Quality, caffeine like a drug can stay in our system and it has what we call a half-life for six up to nine hours, depending on your metabolism and how you metabolize personally caffeine. And there's some genetic differences, but by and large, caffeine is a significant disruptor of our sleep as a society. It's the number one most widely consumed drug in the world. And look, I love coffee. I love the smell. And so I find this to be such a struggle to cut off. But really ask yourself and is one of your struggles a busy mind, heart racing before bed can't calm down? Then you might be a good candidate to maybe have one less glass, one fewer cup a day. And so if you go for a walk and get a coffee in the afternoon, try for an herbal tea instead, make one substitute and see how you feel.

 

(01:04:38):

Or maybe some people swear, buy no coffee after lunch. So maybe you have one nice medium or try not to have the huge cups at some of the fast food chains that are just enormous. And I think much more than even the FDA recommends, which is about 200 milligrams of caffeine. And that's in really a size small at most coffee places. So just be mindful of not only the timing, but how much you're consuming because each additional dose can extend that half-life even further. So say you have a medium sized Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts in the morning and you drink that and then you go for one more the afternoon. So then you've doubled the half-life. So it's not only the six hours from the first cup, but then that caffeine might be lingering in your system. Come 7, 8, 9.

 

Mel Robbins (01:05:27):

Oh. So what time should you stop drinking caffeine? Let's say that your wind down routine is going to be begin at 9:00 PM What time should you stop drinking caffeine? So it's out of your system and not impacting your sleep.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:05:39):

Well, be mindful of it. If you're drinking coffee and it's not too much and you don't have a problem with this, not really a problem. But if you find your heart racing, your mind racing, you're really struggling to fall asleep, caffeine is often one of the culprits. And so I'd say take a day where you maybe cut it out or maybe try decaf and try that for a day. See if you can last, because I think sometimes we get so devoted to our coffee, but try that and then see how your sleep is that next night and then maybe add one more coffee back in the morning and see how you do. And if you have no issues when bedtime rolls around the next night, keep that up. And then maybe you just keep that one cup a day or maybe you add one more and see if it has any negative impacts on your sleep. But again, I'm a big fan of very clear cutoffs. No coffee after lunch,

 

Mel Robbins (01:06:25):

No coffee after lunch.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:06:26):

And it's hard. I personally love coffee, but that's a big one for me because if were up to, I'd be drinking it all day. I just love the smell. But really I think behavior can become so mindless. And so really having these cutoffs that we can adhere to instead of an abstract, oh, I'll stop in the afternoon and suddenly it's three, four o'clock in the afternoon and any coffee at that time will likely be in your system around bedtime.

 

Mel Robbins (01:06:51):

Another factor in sleep is food. So at what time should we stop eating before we go to bed? So if we're going to again, start the wind down, we're just going to say nine o'clock to make the math easy. When should you stop

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:07:05):

Eating? Well, the old adage from the nutrition literature of a Breakfast of Kings, a lunch of princes and a dinner of poppers is actually really good for our sleep. The research shows in diets that are the control for the amount of calories that you're eating. You actually lose weight if you are doing this breakfast of Kings lunch of Princes dinner of poppers. So it's good for your weight management ability, but it's also good for your sleep. So we don't have the run the risk of our body digesting food as we go to bed if we keep dinner. On the lighter side, there's also the intermittent fasting literature, and it really came out of a circadian rhythms laboratory, which is so interesting, but the whole idea there, and some studies have shown different findings, but basically listen to your body. If you're open to this, you might try it.

 

(01:07:53):

If you find that dinner just keeps nudging later and suddenly it's nine, 10:00 PM you haven't eaten your bedtime is in another hour, you might be a good candidate for this. Again, just a clear cutoff of like, is it 8:00 PM I want to be done eating? So then that means I'm eating dinner at seven, whether that's at the office, whether that's with my spouse. And so many people tell me, but my meal with my spouse is the only time that we have to be together. And I always respond to that. You don't have to be together over food. And so looking forward to your date on Friday or Saturday night or your weekends where you have a little bit more flexibility to really make a meal together, really enjoy it, really be present with each other. But then maybe during the work week when you have a later time that you're getting home and then maybe your spouse is getting home late too, and then suddenly it's way into the evening hours and you're trying to desperately do something together, but maybe find another ritual. Maybe it's making a, I know it's kind of lame, but maybe you make a cup of tea together and you're playing a card game,

 

Mel Robbins (01:08:54):

Right? Or thinking about your day. I was going to, my husband and I play cribbage and we all love it, are crazy into we're really radical puzzles. We have jigsaw puzzle on the dining room table and we sit around. But that's if there were a rule of thumb because I've noticed one thing that's made a difference for Chris and our son who's in high school is we were getting out of the habit of eating early and all of a sudden dinner's at seven, then it's at eight and it's creeping right up on bedtime, which for me is winding down around nine

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:09:28):

O'clock.

 

Mel Robbins (01:09:29):

And I pushed dinner to five 30 because otherwise our son was coming home from sports practices and eating half the refrigerator, and by the time dinner was cooked, he's already fed himself dinner. But I've noticed it's made a big difference with my sleep and my bedtime routine to be done eating several hours before I am going to bed. And so if it helps knowing that you should stop eating two hours before you go to bed,

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:09:57):

I love that routine. So it sounds like doing maybe intermittent fasting without even knowing it because you've buffered, you've added about three or four hours before you're falling asleep and you're done eating. And so that's time that you're fasting actually, you're extending the fast that we naturally do over the course of our sleep. And there's so many benefits to fasting, just giving our digestive system a break is really the whole idea behind intermittent fasting. So if you can find a time, if it's five 30, if it's six, if really try to be diligent. If your son is on a bus to sports practice or driving, he has a meal that you made for him or he cooked and he's eating it at the sports field before he goes on or a smoothie. I'm a big fan of smoothies actually for dinner. I know everyone drinks them for breakfast. But if you're busy getting some good calories in it's light, it's likely to not disrupt your sleep at night can be amazing for someone who's busy, strapped for time, et cetera. But it comes back to this idea of good sleep takes planning.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:11:12):

It's a great question. And think about you listening how you can fit these into your life, because of course there's the best case scenario and then there's real life, right? But I think that there's a lot of opportunity to meet all of us where we are with some of these recommendations. So the question for you becomes, how can I implement these things? But one thing we know is good blue light as much as you can over the course of the day. So whether that's walking an extra subway stop or walking to your office, building a little bit, parking your car a little bit further away, getting as much light exposure as you can in the morning, getting a healthy, hearty breakfast. The research shows that a heavy hardy breakfast is great because we're getting the calories that we'll need to fuel our waking success. And then keeping dinner on the lighter side and then over the course of the day, a hardy lunch, and then limiting caffeine consumption over the course of the day and then a little bit more light exposure would be wonderful.

 

(01:12:08):

I'm always getting questions. What's the cure for the afternoon slump? And truly, we all have it. It's just a time where we've maybe been up for a long period of time at that point. We have a little dip in our core body temperature in the afternoon, all of us. And then coupled with maybe a heavy lunch, then you can really, it's kind of the perfect storm sometimes for sleep. And people are like, how do I, what's the drink? What do I do? And I always laugh that the one best evidenced-based cure is for sleepiness is sleep. So if you're exhausted, take a nap. And so if you're a healthy sleeper, that can be part of a healthy sleep routine. The one exception if you are struggling with your sleep insomnia symptoms that we talked about, you're really struggling. The self-talk of I'm a bad sleeper, coupled with a lot of anxiety about sleep, do not nap because we want to build your sleep pressure so that you can really set yourself up for sleep, come bedtime.

 

(01:13:04):

But if you're feeling sleepy in the afternoon, why not? Maybe you're home, you work from home, wonderful. Crawl into your bed and close your eyes for maybe five, 10 minutes is actually we don't need a lot of time when it comes to napping to actually get a lot of benefits. And then in the afternoon, again, getting some natural light exposure and then slipping into the evening mode and being thoughtful about different mindsets, slowing down our breath as we approach bedtime. And ideally, dinner has been on the earlier side, a later dinner isn't ideal for sleep. So if it's two hours of a buffer between the last time that you're eating and your bedtime, perfect. If you could give me three, I'd love it. And then maybe a little evening work if you need to, because look, some of us, that's a reality. There is one suggestion. There's a computer program called Flux. Flux is a software you can download to your computer and it changes the color temperature of your screen to be warmer. And so if you have to be working on your computer as you approach bedtime, look into that tool, it'll change automatically. It's wonderful. But then you switch into your bedtime routine and your ritual that helps you fall asleep and then you crawl into the sheets and you slip off,

 

(01:14:19):

Yes, but realize it's not going to happen every night. And so the hope is after you've heard all of our conversation today that you have the tools, if you're motivated, if you have the time in your life, and not everyone does, because we go through peaks and valleys of careers exploding and lots of deadlines or personal obligations, caring for a loved one, caring for children, older adults, and realizing that maybe you're in a life stage where you can't implement these things, and that's okay. But when you're able to give them a shot, what do you have to lose?

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:53):

Well, you can implement some

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:14:55):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:56):

Because no matter what's going on in your life,

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:14:57):

I couldn't agree

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:58): 

More. You can create a buffer with your phone.

 

(01:15:00):

You can stop the alcohol. You can quit drinking caffeine at lunchtime. You can get your butt outside and get natural light in your eyeballs in the morning and throughout the day. And you can create a small ritual. The consistency may be something that is a little difficult to create based on your schedule, but I actually don't think that these things are out of reach. I think we've gotten used to complaining about being tired and what you're offering are research backed solutions that are within everybody's reach. And so it is my hope that as you've been listening today to Dr. Robbins, that you're going, well, I could try that. I could try that. My sleep is important. And one thing that I keep thinking about is I love how you have changed the story of what's happening at night from, okay, I got to get to sleep, I got to get to bed. I need to put down my phone too. No, I'm taking the time back. This is my time. I gave my day to everybody else. I gave my attention to the phone and social media. This is where I get to reclaim my time and I get to do a little something for myself. 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:16:27):

I think the single thing is routines and rituals. And we've applied that to a lot of different aspects of our days of the time leading up to sleep, the wind down ritual before bedtime, trying to work towards a bedtime routine, finding some normalcy in terms of your, or building some routine around your target, fall asleep time, being more mindful of that time, and then your wake up time because we're really meant as human beings to operate that way. And so building them in and starting small with maybe a bedtime routine, a couple wind down rituals, turning off the phone, thinking about some of these breathing exercises, and then maybe adding in the consistency of bedtimes and wake times and really being diligent about that and also realizing how you feel and realizing that it doesn't have to be a struggle. If you're ready and motivated these things, you hit the nail on the head mal. They're free and they're available tonight if you're willing.

 

Mel Robbins (01:17:27):

I love that. Free and available tonight. Dr. Robbins, thank you so much for being here.

 

Dr. Rebecca Robbins (01:17:32):

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

 

Mel Robbins (01:17:34):

And in case no one else tells you, I want to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. And because I love you, I'm going to tell you something. I want you to do what Dr. Robbins is telling you to do. I don't want to hear the excuses. I want you to try it because your sleep matters. Your energy matters, your health matters, your focus matters. And these are all things that you can try and implement. Try it for seven days. Let me know how much better you're feeling. Make sure you share this with somebody that you love because you heard it. Two thirds of adults are not getting the sleep and the rest that they need. And now, based on the clinical studies and the research that we discussed today, there are simple things that you can do that you need to start doing. So take it seriously. Alright, I'll talk to you in a few days. Thank you so much for watching this episode, for sharing this with your friends that are tired and for hitting subscribe so I can continue to bring you amazing experts. And I know you probably loved everything that Dr. Robbins just taught you. So how about another expert from Harvard? Let's talk to Dr. Sarah Wakeman, who is here to dig deep into the science of alcohol and everything that you need to know.