Want to Be Happier Right Now? Don’t Make This Mistake (New Surprising Science)

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:00:13):

This idea of what we thought happiness was is just not possible. It's not attainable. That's why people feel unsatisfied. That's why they feel like they can't reach it. How do we increase the points of joy today?

 

Mel Robbins (00:00:24):

Here we go. Let's take the quiz. There's a different way to live and you're here to say there is. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're hanging out with me today, and I also want to thank you for taking the time to choose to listen to something that could help you improve your life. I think that is super cool. Whether you're a longtime listener or you are brand new, I want to welcome you. You are now part of the Mel Robbins podcast family. We are a super cool, smart, and empowered group of people and you are a huge part of it, so thank you. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and one of the world's leading experts on confidence and motivation. I am on a mission to inspire you, to empower you, and to give you tools and the expert resources that you need and deserve to help you create a better life.

 

(00:01:13):

Now, over the past month, we have been talking nonstop about different ways that you can make this year the best year of your life. And I know you've been loving these episodes because we've been covering everything from how do you get clear on what you actually want and why you want it. How do you create a plan to go for it and to actually achieve what you want? And a big part of this being one of the best years of your life is you allowing it to be you letting happiness in because I really do want you to not only crush it in life and achieve your big goals, but I don't want you to do that as an empty person. I want you to be able to experience joy and to feel fulfilled as you're going for it. Just a couple of weeks ago, you and I talked all about how you are blocking your happiness.

 

(00:01:59):

I talked and shared about how I had been doing it, how I've stopped doing it, and I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode in case you missed it because everybody that listened to it gobbled that up. I mean, you shared that. You wrote in. I'm so glad it made a huge difference. And so today this was my plan. I was planning that we were going to go even deeper on the topic of happiness and talk all about the research and science with this renowned researcher. Well, I sat down and we were starting the conversation and I'm going to warn you. Holy smokes, we were like two minutes in and the conversation went in a direction that I was not expecting. And I'm going to tell you something. I'm so happy it did because you're about to hear one of the most validating, important and impactful interviews I've ever done on this podcast.

 

(00:02:54):

Period. You are going to feel so seen and understood. You're going to understand why feeling fulfilled and just happy, happy, happy has alluded you. And most importantly, you'll be left in action. I cannot wait for you to spend time with the incredible Dr. Judith Joseph. Lemme tell you about her. She is a renowned double board certified psychiatrist. She earned her medical degree, her MBA and did her residency all at Columbia where she is also the chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board. She also did a medical fellowship at NYU where she's been a professor for the last decade. Just recently, she received a US Congress and House of Representatives Proclamation Award for her social media advocacy and mental health research. And here's the thing that I find to be so cool about Dr. Judith Joseph. She's a pioneering researcher. She's the founder and principal investigator of a research institute that she created Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, where she has conducted over 60 clinical research trials with her all female medical team.

 

(00:04:02):

Dr. Judith is here with not only the research, but the recommendations, the simple things that you can start doing literally in the middle of this podcast with me and with Dr. Judith to start feeling like yourself again. So thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this. Let's jump right in. Hey, we're going to get to this episode in just a second. I cannot wait to introduce you to Dr. Judith Joseph, this is amazing. But first, please have you subscribed to our channel. It makes a huge difference. It allows me to bring you a brand new video every single day. You're going to love this one, so just take a moment and subscribe to do it. Awesome, thank you so much. Now let's jump into the episode. Dr. Judith Joseph, I am so happy you are here. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for coming and spending time with me.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:04:48):

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

 

Mel Robbins (00:04:50):

I am too. And I want to jump right in. So much of your research and your work is with what I guess society would call highly successful, high functioning people. And on the outside you could check all the boxes in terms of what society tells us to measure from the income to the family life, to the cars that they drive to, the titles that they have. And yet you are finding some pretty incredible insights. I recently saw you say something that surprised me. You said that we need to throw our idea of happiness out the window. And I thought, Dr. Judith, what has gotten into you are the smiles most joyful person. What do you mean throw happiness out the window?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:05:39):

Well, in my practice and in the research that I'm doing, I'm seeing that this idea of what we thought happiness was, it's just not possible. It's not attainable. People are walking around feeling blah or meh or just feeling numb. And then to give them this impossible idea of happiness to then go ahead and try to obtain, it's just not right. It's unattainable.

 

Mel Robbins (00:06:02):

And when you say this impossible idea of happiness, is it the kind of, I dunno, popular culture notion that happiness is about doing more, it's about achieving something, it's about go, go, go, and all of us are just freaking exhausted. Is that what you're talking

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:06:19):

About? Happiness is not a state. It's about increasing the points, the moments of joy. It's about becoming happier and not being happy. So there are small things you can do every day to increase the points of joy in your life to add up to being happier. It's not just one moment in time. It's not this picture perfect ideal because that is impossible to reach. And that's why people feel unsatisfied. That's why they feel like they can't reach it. And so when you shift the way you think about happiness as like, okay, there are points of joy today that I could have or not have versus I need to be happy today. It's such a mind blowing shift and it's attainable when you think about it as points of joy.

 

Mel Robbins (00:07:02):

So I got to get my mind to be on the same level as Dr. Judith here. So maybe I should ask you this. As a researcher, how do you even describe happiness? If you were talking, let's say to your 7-year-old, how would you explain happiness to your daughter?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:07:25):

It's interesting because you don't have to teach children how to play. It just seems as if they naturally know how to play. You put it, just do an experiment. You're going to be a researcher with me, have a toddler, give them a box. They'll find ways to enjoy that box. They may put it in their mouth, they may toss it in their hands, they may throw it to someone else. They may look at it, they may inspect it. They're using their senses to explore a box, something that most of us just discard along. What line, at what point do we lose the ability to play? And after a certain while seeing children and adults in my practice, I'll have a 50-year-old man sit on my couch and then I look at him like a five-year-old. I'm like, at what point did this five-year-old stop playing? And then you trace back to their childhood, you trace back to their trauma. And at some point they stopped prioritizing fun, joy, play. They just stopped and they don't know. So it's my job to figure out where did they lose that? And I'm seeing this lack of feeling and lack of validation and lack of processing in our society. If we don't know how we feel, how can we identify what to do with this feeling, this emotion? How do we trace back to the thought, to the experience that led to this present state? So because of a lack of feeling and processing, I'm learning that this is leading to a lack of joy, which I have helped my patients to name as anhedonia.

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:08:57):

Say it with me, Ann?

 

Mel Robbins (00:08:58):

Ann

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:08:58):

Hood

 

Mel Robbins (00:08:58):

Hood

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:08:58):

Donia

 

Mel Robbins (00:09:00):

Donia anhedonia. Did I say it?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:09:02):

Perfect

 

Mel Robbins (00:09:03):

What the hell is Anhedonia? See, I'm going to do, I'm already laughing at myself.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:09:08):

Ann is a lack of, hedon. Is hedonism or joy? Pleasure.

 

Mel Robbins (00:09:13):

Okay,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:09:13):

So lack of joy. Ann Hedonia,

 

Mel Robbins (00:09:16):

I've never heard this word. Is this actually a clinical term?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:09:20):

It is. It's a very old medical term and it's throughout the research, but it's not in the typical vocabulary. I'm trying to change that. I educate my patients that Anne Hedonia is something that we all at some point probably experience, but not in long stretches. And if you ever think back to a time in life where you were really busy and you weren't really processing what you're going through, maybe you were feeling meh or people ask, how are you doing? I'm okay, but you really felt like nothing. Guess what? That's anhedonia.

 

Mel Robbins (00:09:53):

So I'm just going to speak on behalf of I think the vast majority of people who are listening right now, who basically are going through life feeling a little empty inside. And you've already kind of woven through a number of topics. And when I hear you describe that feeling of, well, I don't really know how I'm feeling, I'm sort of checked out, I'm going through the motions, I feel like, ugh, I'm not really connected to anything right now. A lot of people have the experience of going, there's a different way to live. And you're here to say there is,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:10:36):

I think a lot of people don't even recognize what that is. There's something called affect labeling. If you name the way you feel you're less stressed. I mentioned I treat children some as young as four and adults, some as old as 90. And the interesting thing is that when you're seeing a child in preschool, if you walk into any preschool or kindergarten, you'll see a face chart. You'll see a sign that says, this is happy, this is sad, this is angry, this is hurt. 

Mel Robbins (00:11:29):

Okay, now there was a whole lot of words. Bio. What was it? What does that mean?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:11:37):

In medical school, you learn that all disease models or symptoms have a psychosocial component. Bio represents your body, your biology. So for example, we went through a pandemic. Who knows how the virus affected our brains. Some numbers say that 70% of us got infected. Also, there are genetic risk factors in the bio, right? Some of us have a family history of mental health conditions, the food that we eat. There's a lot of growing literature and nutritional psychiatry that the foods are causing inflammation and the environment and so forth. So that's the bio part of the bio-psychosocial model.

 

Mel Robbins (00:12:13):

Yep.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:12:14):

The psychological component. This is interesting because in our society, trauma is not processed and people have a way of labeling victims as being the blame for the trauma. The just rule theory that we all kind of harbor in our brain says

 

Mel Robbins (00:12:32):

That what is the just world theory?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:12:33):

Well, good things happen to good people. Bad things happen to bad people. So you may read these terrible stories of a woman running through the park and you're like, what was she doing in the park that night? She shouldn't have been attacked. But in our minds we think, well, if she did this, if she did that, she should have been okay. But it's just not the case. Bad things happen to good people and they happen to them. It wasn't their fault. But in our society, we labeled trauma as a blaming thing, a shame thing. So it really deters people from talking about their feelings, talking about their pain.

 

Mel Robbins (00:13:01):

It's true.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:13:02):

And as a society, we went through a lot of trauma. We had the pandemic, we had all these bad things happen. It's like when I take my daughter to the beach and I say, watch out for the waves. And she runs right into the waves. She gets hit, catches her breath, catches breath. Then she nose dives into the sand. Well, we as a society did not get a chance to catch our breaths. We got hit with the pandemic. Then we had all these terrible news reports about police brutality. Then we saw uprisings with political issues. We saw wars. I mean it was just news after news. We never caught our breath. But as a society, there's no COVID-19 memorial. We don't have a holiday. So there's no way to process that trauma. We're just supposed to push, push, push through it. And when you push and you don't feel, that sounds like anhedonia, right? You get numb. And that's been our coping mechanism. That's just the psycho part. I haven't even gotten into the social part.

 

Mel Robbins (00:13:53):

Well, let's do the social part and then I have a bunch of questions about the state of where the average person is given the last three to four years that we have collectively experienced. So let's talk about the social part because you've done two of them of the bio psycho and now social.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:14:14):

Now the social, we all identify with this. One minute we were told humans are dangerous. Don't touch, don't go to their house, stay alone. And then the next minute we were told, okay, humans are safe. You can congregate. Then we were told again, Uhuh don't do that. You're going to get hurt. Children, if you think about children, because I treat children and adults, if you tell them that they've had trauma and then you tell them they're safe and that it wasn't their fault and that this is the routine, they do better. They have a better outcome than if they think it's all their fault and that they're not safe. And there's no routine, there's no plan. Adults have the same type of thinking. If you tell us that we're safe, then we're safe again, then we're not. It just does something to it's trauma and we never got to heal from that. So the isolation, that's the social part. We lost that connectivity.

 

(00:15:03):

Then how do we connect online? We used social media and if you look at the C, DC reports, children are online and their mental health has declined. So they really got connected to each other online and it replaced that meaningful interaction. Children need sensory input. Their you brain supposedly develop until you're 25. They lost all of that. They just cope by being online and excessively using social media. And we're learning now that these studies are showing that this is dangerous for their brains. I don't even know what it's going to show for the adult brain. So that's a social part. There were other things we saw a rise in binge drinking in populations that were typically protected because people were soothing that way.

 

(00:15:49):

We saw things like unhealthy sexual habits online, developing consumerism like we've had more online shopping than ever before. So there's this human condition to soothe in ways that are excess. So we do do, we don't feel, feel. And when you don't feel, you feel right. Anhedonia. And a lot of the research is overlapping with anhedonia from what we know. When Ribba, who's a French psychologist, first identified anhedonia back in the day in the 18 hundreds, what he found was a correlation between depression, substance abuse and schizophrenia. But given the collective trauma and the soothing with excess in a culture that is very capitalistic, where the rich are just getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, people are consuming, the rich are consuming money, power, and the rest of us are just trying to keep up, right? We're consuming our dollars stretch a lot less far than they used to. So we have this really excessive consumerism culture that is not the proper way to soothe. It's not processing, we're not feeling.

 

Mel Robbins (00:16:55):

I am so happy that you just went there and I'm going to tell you why. But before I kind of add in my 2 cents, I want to ask you a question. Because you have been working with people in your clinical practice, you have been conducting a tremendous number of clinical trials, and so you see it both in your one-on-one patient interactions from the ages of literally five to 90. And then you also see it as you're measuring data points. Is it your opinion as a researcher and as a clinician that there has been a large increase in this feeling of emptiness and this feeling of blah, that anhedonia that you are seeing of the last three to four years of the collective trauma of going through the pandemic and all of the just injustice that played out in the news in terms of police brutality and in the political turmoil, that is a collective trauma that has caused a spike in anhedonia, this lack of joy in people.

Mel Robbins (00:19:30):

I want to make sure that you listening, that you're hearing what Dr. Judith is saying because I think she is 1000 fricking percent correct and I'm so glad you're the one saying it because you have the credentials and you have the research, and you have the awards and all of it to basically say, listen up. The reason why you feel empty and numb and burnt out is because you are struggling with this condition that was created by three to four years of sustained uncertainty, the likes of which a human being is not designed to process. I'll just share a little bit because when you and I last met, it was when I was hosting a daytime talk show, and it was just after one of your last appearances that COVID-19 was found at CBS Broadcast Center. They evacuated the building, they summarily canceled my show.

 

(00:20:26):

I have a payroll to make the kids come home. And I have conveniently pushed that to the back of my mind, that period of time where I was in sheer panic about how I was going to pay the bills, what was going to happen, how I was going to keep healthcare going for people, what was going to happen to my kids. And every single one of us has that story. And so I agree with you. I also agree, and I think it's very important for you listening to hear that if you worked for somebody, there was a anxiety response to what was happening. And there was a time where your work life was okay and manageable, and then all of a sudden you found yourself on a never ending zoom parade where you were constantly online, the kids were at your feet. And I think it's important, and it's great that you're talking about it because our instinct in life is to basically pull up our big girl pants and move on.

 

(00:21:35):

We got through that. We're not talking about it. I hate that term, the new normal because it basically means, and what you're saying and what you're seeing from a research perspective and a clinical perspective is that this has impacted your ability to access joy. This is why you feel that you're just, or you're empty and that's why you're having trouble sleeping. That's why you just kind of want to get on with it. That's why nothing quite feels right, because it hasn't gone back to normal because you haven't reset your body back to normal. And are you also saying though, that there's something we can do and that we should do and that it will help both process all of the crazy stuff that we all just survived and that we're not talking about because we want to forget about it and that it will help us access joy and happiness again?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:22:34):

I'm so grateful you said that so beautifully. I mean, you're so in tune and so connected to your listeners. What you just did was validated them. You named what they were going through, right? We called it affect labeling, naming how you feel, because when you know what it is, you're less afraid.

 

Mel Robbins (00:22:53):

That's true.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:22:54):

As humans, we need to know what it is. So you validated everyone and said, this is what you're feeling. The other thing that you did so beautifully was you said, I was in a haze and I don't remember, I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from my patients. 2020 was a blur. Even my lab team we're like, what were we doing in 2020? Sometimes we go through the phone and we look at pictures. We were on the roof drinking tequila. That's what researchers do after a big study that's sometimes needed something, a little something. But yeah, it's like we don't remember things, right? That's a symptom of trauma. People forget huge parts of their lives. So don't be surprised. Don't knock yourself if you don't even remember parts of 2020, that's a trauma response. People were also awarded, they were rewarded and awarded for pushing through How? So your corporate Anne Hedonia is contagious. It is contagious. 

Mel Robbins (00:24:02):

I believe you. I believe you.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:24:03):

Well, if a corporation is anxious, like you said

 

Mel Robbins (00:24:06):

Yes,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:24:07):

And the boss is anxious and they're like, oh my gosh, we're going to lose everything. Well, that gets passed down, right? It's trickle down. Everyone else is anxious, everyone's working. And if the heads have not relaxed, if they haven't stopped that or if they've gotten wise and they're like, we're making money, let's keep this fear going. It's never going to stop. In fact, you get rewarded with the more work and the less you feel.

 

Mel Robbins (00:24:31):

Yes. And I think this has snuck up on people. And so I want to tell you as you're listening to Dr. Judith, she's not joking that this crept up on you. And if you feel like you can't get back to yourself, if you feel like you can never catch a break from work, even when you're not working, you're thinking about it, you can't find that off switch so that you can drop into those points of joy that you don't even probably remember because that was four years ago and you've been running a hundred miles an hour since. This is an opportunity to say, yeah, that happened to me. Now we need to hear a short word from our sponsors because they allow me to bring all of this expert advice to you at zero cost. So stay with us. Welcome back at S Smell, and we're talking about joy, or actually we're talking about the lack of joy and why so many of us are feeling that right now with the remarkable Dr. Judith Joseph. And we were just about to jump into why it is so hard to identify this as the core issue that we're struggling with.

 

(00:25:49):

And I would love for you to talk a little bit about what you are seeing both as a psychiatrist and a researcher.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:25:58):

Here's the thing, doctors and healthcare providers, they don't code something unless it causes impairment. So if you go onto the doctor and you're like, I just feel kind of blah, and they're going to be like, well, are you working? Yes. Are you taking care of your family at home? Yes. Is anyone really complaining? No. Okay, well, I'll see you next year. Right? It's not like digging deeper, something's off. I just feel like any minute now something's going to happen. I can't put my finger on it, or I feel like nothing gives me pleasure. If you go to a doctor with that, they're going to be like, oh, well, your function's okay. You, you're good.

 

Mel Robbins (00:26:32):

I think I just got what your research is about. So you've identified the symptom and how it appears on the surface, which any one of us that are just going through life would describes as I feel blah, I feel empty. I feel a little lost. I feel like I'm on autopilot. You have grabbed onto this thing that we may describe casually to somebody, but it is a low ache inside of your soul, basically, where you aren't feeling a lot, you're kind of in survival mode, and yet you're still getting it done. And you've pulled on that thread in people who are functioning and pushing through and getting it done. And you have found a very deep connection that on the surface, when you say to yourself, which I think if you're honest with yourself, everybody is suffering from a level of this,

 

(00:27:37):

Unless you have truly taken your mental health and your nervous system and processing what we all just went through, you are probably feeling this. And you have pulled on that thread and gone all the way down to say, holy smokes. This is somebody who's turned off feelings. And this is somebody who has blocked their access to joy and happiness and more chasing and trying to get the Lamborghini or more Instagram followers or to lose weight or to find a person to date all that shit on the outside is never going to impact this. And that's why you say you have to, especially right now, you have to throw the definition of what happiness is out the damn window. Because I think we are all, when you say happiness, what that means to me is most of us are chasing it, right? We think more money will create that feeling.

 

(00:28:36):

We think losing the weight will create that feeling. And I'd love to just go and start talking about terms, because we all want what you're talking about. We all want to get rid of the emptiness. I want everybody listening to feel validated. Like, this really happened, it really impacted you, and it's still impacting you. You know it, but people are not talking about it. This is a deep, well-researched, psychologically validated. I don't even know if that's a term, but it is real. If we're going to throw happiness as we think about it, how do most people that walk into your practice, how do most people think about happiness in the wrong way?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:29:20):

So I've developed this anhedonia rating scale. Anyone can take it. It's on my website.

 

Mel Robbins (00:29:25):

You are such a scientist. I love this. There is a scale for

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:29:28):

This. There's points. You can't tell people to measure it, and then they have no way. So if you fill out the rating scale, you'll see that it's made up of points of joy. Now, there've been anhedonia rating scales for decades. I modified them because the older ones like the shops, the Nathan Hamilton ratings,

 

Mel Robbins (00:29:47):

I have no idea what you're talking about, but okay,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:29:49):

Well, it has a British twang to it. So it'll say, did you enjoy a cup of tea this morning? That's my British accent. It's a good one. Did you like that landscape? Well, we don't have that, right? I don't drink tea in the morning. So I had to modify and add things that relate to today. One of the things I found is that people with anhedonia will say, I will be happy when or if this happens, then I'll finally be happy. So there's this picture of what happiness looks like, and it's usually when something happens, they're missing the mark, because even research shows that even when you get that picture, when that thing happens, you're still not happy. So then it's another goal. It's another thing. Being happier in the day is what matters. One thing we all have in common is that tomorrow is not promised. Right? We all have that in common. So how do we increase the points of joy today?

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:42):

And I understand that you have a quiz that you can run me through to determine the level to which you have anhedonia and that this is what you're really struggling with, which is the inability to find small points of joy in your day.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:02):

Absolutely. So it has some modern day.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:04):

Can you give me the quiz?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:05):

I can.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:06):

Okay, everybody listen up. Here we go. Let's take the quiz.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:10):

It's very, very basic and it's agree or disagree.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:12):

Okay.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:13):

I often make delayed future happiness statements such as When I get this X, I'll finally be happy. So it could be anything.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:20):

Yes.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:21):

Okay. I agree. I find it hard to enjoy resting or taking breaks because I feel restless and empty when I'm not busy.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:28):

A hundred percent agree.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:31):

I rarely take the time to savor meals.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:35):

By that, do you mean I stand up and I eat while I'm talking? Is that what you're referring to?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:43):

I've done a bunch of tiktoks on people shoving food in their mouths.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:46):

Yes. Yeah. Or working and typing as I'm, yes.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:49):

That's not savory.

 

Mel Robbins (00:31:50):

Yeah. My daughter just yelled at me for doing that the other day and then said, that's probably why you feel bloated, mom. Okay.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:31:58):

I rarely enjoy reading for leisure.

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:01):

I enjoy it, but I never do it.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:32:05):

A lot of people say that. A lot of people say that when I take naps, I don't feel refreshed. I

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:14):

Don't take naps because when I wake up, I feel anxious, like I miss something. I don't like napping.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:32:22):

When I watch TV or stream movies, I'm not engaged in the program.

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:28):

I agree. I typically do not follow my own advice, and I'm scrolling while I'm watching.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:32:34):

When I make an effort to dress up, I rarely enjoy the experience. Oh, I kind of like that when others compliment me. I have a hard time enjoying praise. I agree. I have a difficult time enjoying social interactions with family or friends.

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:52):

I used to, but since the pandemic, I find that I'm way more introverted. It feels like an energy drain.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:33:01):

It's hard to relax and enjoy a holiday or vacation.

 

Mel Robbins (00:33:07):

Everybody that knows me that is sitting here with us is laughing. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see it. But I'm having this experience where I literally feel like I am in an intake appointment with Dr. Judith because she looks at her paper, then looks at me and nods knowingly and does her little thing and then asks the next one. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm already okay. What else have we got?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:33:30):

I find it hard to enjoy listening to music.

 

Mel Robbins (00:33:35):

I disagree with that. One of the few things I like,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:33:38):

This is a little personal.

 

Mel Robbins (00:33:39):

Okay, I'll answer.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:33:40):

I have a difficult time enjoying physical intimacy or sexual behavior.

 

Mel Robbins (00:33:44):

My sex life has definitely taken a hit since the pandemic. I think we're both exhausted. We do a lot of talking about wanting to have sex with each other, but then by the time I get into the bedroom, Chris is asleep and I'm too tired to wake him up. And so yeah, that's definitely taken a hit.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:34:04):

I rarely enjoy self-care activities such as a warm bath or a mani-pedi.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:08):

Oh, I love those. I just don't make enough time for 'em.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:34:11):

I rarely enjoy simple pleasure, such as a nice cup of coffee or tasting a delicious beverage smelling sweet scent.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:19):

I disagree with that one.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:34:21):

I rarely enjoy beautiful art.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:27):

I agree.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:34:28):

I have a hard time enjoying the work that I produce because I often feel it is not good enough. Oh my God, my poor team was just

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:34):

Like, yes, she absolutely is that way. Relentless. I'm relentless.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:34:41):

So even if I am producing high levels, I have a hard time enjoying this.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:46):

Yes. That's my biggest complaint about work right now is that even though we are killing it, I'm no longer enjoying it as much as I used to. And I want to get back to this point where I really love it. I mean, I love talking to you right now, and I love the work, but there's just this feeling that it never ends and that I can't stop thinking about it, and I don't want it to be that way.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:35:16):

Well, thank you for your bravery. Now here's how we address it.

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:19):

Okay, so do I have anhedonia?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:35:21):

You have very high levels of it based on

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:23):

This. Oh, shit.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:35:24):

Okay. But that's okay. A lot of us do. In fact, I did at one point, and that's why I became so into this because you, I'm an entrepreneur. I have my lab, I have families that depend on me. My own family depends on me. I was work, work, work, work, working. And then after a while it was just like things that used to excite me, didn't excite me anymore. So the way to get back into your body and a way to feel again, feel the feels, is to focus on those simple pleasures in life. Not that big grand scheme of this idea of happiness, but today, how do we increase the points of joy? Because when we add them all together, overall you feel happy. Right? Happy out the window, picture of happy out the window, happy year overall is what we're trying to achieve.

 

Mel Robbins (00:36:12):

That makes all the sense in the world. And the first thing that I recognize that I think probably everybody recognizing that was saying, I agree. I agree. Or thinking in their own mind as you were going through the questions is the first thing that comes to mind. Just being honest is, but I can't slow down to do those things. And I feel like that happened during the pandemic. I feel as though in the last four years I was walking on a treadmill and all of a sudden, I dunno who the hell came by. And all of a sudden, tap, tap, tap took me from walking at 2.5 miles per hour. And next thing you know, I'm in a valet jog when somebody goes to get your car and they go to jog and they get it, and now I'm in a sprint and I want to slow down.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:37:03):

Well, you went through a trauma like your show shut down, then you were on the go, and then a whole bunch of things happen. I don't know your personal life, but if you don't take the time to process all those traumas, then you're just using everything else to soothe and it's a distraction. It'll never be enough. You're not getting to processing that trauma. You're not feeling the feels and one simple thing everyone can do. Right. Let's pick one thing on here that I can do right now and demonstrate with you. Just even with a cup of water, usually I like to use glass

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:35):

Because, okay, wait. We're cheap here. We got plastic. We're pretending they don't trust me because they think I'm going to break it. No, I'm just kidding. Do you want glass? No, that's okay. We'll get glass.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:37:44):

Imagine it's glass.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:45):

We have your glass. Do you want glass? I think you'll feel better. Sure. Yes. She would like glass. Should I have glass?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:37:50):

Yes.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:51):

Okay, we're going to get glass. So how many people, as we get the glasses, how many people would you say if you were to just throw out a percentage based on your research, how many people are struggling with anhedonia?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:38:09):

It's hard to say because it's hard to measure it. And when we try to track anhedonia through the populations, it's difficult to measure because anhedonia could be related to schizophrenia, depression, substance use. But I think that when we look at the model of the bio-psychosocial, how we're all using these behavioral addictions, I don't like the word addiction, but when we look at these behaviors as being self-soothing because they are, they're habit forming behaviors where it's somehow dependent on the money, dependent on the,

 

Mel Robbins (00:38:40):

Or the busyness, social media,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:38:41):

Everything. It's all like an addiction. So it's hard to measure, but I would guess that it's a very high number. And I think it's hard to measure because people don't know what it is. They don't know the name, but hopefully they'll know what it is and they'll be able to address it.

 

Mel Robbins (00:38:57):

Well, I think the first step is validating that absolutely everyone experienced some level of this over the last three or four years, and there's no way that you could be living in the modern world and not have it impact you and what it feels like in your body. And I've even noticed that time off hasn't even refreshed me the way that I thought it would. I just literally got back from a vacation with my family and celebrating grandparents' birthdays and I don't feel refreshed. I feel even more tired, honestly. And that never used to be the case. And so if you were not looking at the data, but you were saying based on common sense and just the wide range of people that walk in and out of your practice and in your research institute every day, do you think that this is something that's impacting absolutely everybody on some level?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:40:01):

I think so. I think everyone has points, just like the points of joy that are loss throughout the day. Everyone experiences the numbing. We have to remember that numbing, fight, flight, freeze. Those are trauma responses. So not only are we just busing ourselves and not feeling, but we're also not feeling as a sense a way to survive this. Right? If we felt it, then maybe some of us would be terrified with that feeling.

 

Mel Robbins (00:40:27):

Well, and the other thing is, honestly, I love you Dr. Judith, but I don't want to fucking feel this thing again. I feel like I went through it.

 

(00:40:34):

I want it to be over with. I want to move on. And yet there is a deeper level of happiness. And what I love about that I want, and what I love about your research is that you are doing this with people that are moving on, that are high functioning, that do have their jobs, that are paying their bills, that are doing all this, and yet can't access it. And so I also like that what you're providing us is you're about to teach us this exercise we can do every day that costs no money, and that doesn't require you to take time off and to take a vacation that you're actually saying, no, no, no, no. You got to put this in your day-to-day life and realize we're warming up our feelings again. And before Dr. Judas shares a specific exercise that you can do to create more joy, I would love for you to take a moment and listen to our sponsors who allow me to bring this to you at zero cost. So take a short listen, I'll be waiting for you right after a short break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's Mel, and we're talking to Dr. Judith Joseph. We've already talked about why so many of us are feeling like we're not ourselves, and now Dr. Joseph is about to jump back in and lead us through a simple tool that you can use right now to get in touch with the you that feels like it's missing and these small amounts of joy that you deserve to feel in your life.

Mel Robbins (00:42:13):

Right?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:42:14):

Already write the countdown,

 

Mel Robbins (00:42:15):

Right?

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:42:15):

Well, there's something called the 5 4, 3, 2, 1 grounding method. And when you list five things that you see, four things that you feel, three things that you hear, two things you could smell and one thing you can taste. And if you did one minute of those things, that's 15 minutes it sounds like. Oh, easy. No, it's very difficult for people who are on autopilot to take 15 minutes to do anything. So let me just describe one minute of all those things.

 

Mel Robbins (00:42:43):

Let's do it.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:42:43):

On the anhedonia scale, we have different things like tasting, seeing, they're all stimulating the senses. Toddlers, when they're young, we encourage them to explore their environment and they just enjoy it so much. And you see them rolling around with this garbage and they're putting it in their mouth and they're really having joy because they're feeling they're really in the moment. So we all drink water.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:06):

Okay, we got a cup beer,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:43:08):

And in the morning, this is what I do. It's my one minute of grounding myself and enjoying something very simple, increasing that point of joy. So I'm going to look at it and I see I'm describing what I see. I am looking at that and saying it's clear. I see my pink nail polish. I love it. You can describe things in your environment that you're seeing. I see you have beautiful blonde hair. There's a statue right there. There's a beautiful flower behind you. It's yellow, it's green. So I'm describing things that I see, but really with the act of drinking the water, you want to describe what you're seeing.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:46):

Okay,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:43:47):

So I see this glass and I see the water shining, and I'm going to really be present in the moment. As I hold the glass. I'm going to describe what I'm feeling in my hand. It's cold, it's cool on some points. It's hard, and I'm listening to my fingernails tap on it. I like the sound of that as MR right there. And then it feels cool in my tongue, and actually I was really thirsty, so that felt really good going down. Some water has a minerally taste. This one's very fresh. There's no smell to it, but you can do this with a beverage that smells, and I'm really paying attention to how it feels going down my throat. I'm going to take another sip, and I'm looking at the glass and I'm trying to be present in the moment, but I really enjoyed that sip of water. I really fully enjoyed it. How many times do we enjoy just a sip? So we're adding up all the sips, the points of joy in life. So take the time. Five things that you saw this morning for me. I flew here from New York. I looked at the sun, sun rising. I saw the beautiful New York City skyline. I liked the waterfront here in Boston. There were things that I saw.

 

(00:44:57):

I touched my loved ones because when you touch people, it releases oxytocin. I wear this furry jacket and I love to feel it. You can really enjoy the senses if you took the time, and it sounds loosey goosey and very granola, but the science shows that if we can really increase those points of joy in a day overall, we'll feel happier. Instead of chasing this idea of happy, tomorrow's not promised.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:22):

When you feel this burnt out, you kind of hear that and you go, oh, for God's sakes, Dr. Jude, seriously, you're telling me to drink water? And I say that because I want to represent the person who's listening who can't quite comprehend how savoring a glass of water like that and slowing yourself down could possibly make a dent into this feeling of meh or emptiness. And so how does that actually create more meaning and happiness in your life overall? If you are adding up small moments, which if I had to really pull it apart, where you are stopping and you are getting out of your racing thoughts, and you are dropping into your body and you are forcing yourself to come into the present moment by activating all five senses.

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:46:31):

It's the five second rule, right? The thought, feelings, behavior triangle and cognitive behavioral therapy. Classically, when we're trained, we're thinking, if you shift the thought, then you shift the feeling, then the behavior changes. But if you shift the behavior, even if you don't feel like doing it, it pushes everything the other way. For example, if you take this quiz at home and you're not enjoying, let's say physical intimacy,

 

Mel Robbins (00:46:57):

Yes,

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:46:58):

Try simmering. Simmering is a term used. What the hell is simmering?

 

Mel Robbins (00:47:02):

What am I doing with

 

Dr. Judith Joseph (00:47:02):

Chris tonight? Simmering is a term that's used in marriage and couples counseling where you don't have full on a hot, passionate session, but you may gently rub the small of your partner's back and it creates this little excitement. You're like, oh, where'd that come from? It's not the full on act,

 

(00:47:21):

But it's a taste of it. That moment of joy does so much for one person. Try it with your pet. We love pets.