Episode: 100
10 Genius Hacks To Keep Your Home Organized (When Getting Out of Bed Is Hard)
with KC Davis
Get smarter about everyday tasks and win back time to rest guilt-free.
KC Davis, therapist, and bestselling author who helps you clean up your act, even when you are struggling to just brush your teeth every day.
Learn clever hacks to stay on top of your to-do list and build a routine that works when life feels like too much to handle.
Listen on:
Sometimes you have to get up and do it.
KC Davis
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:03):
I keep getting dms and forms submitted at melrobbins.com/podcast where people are writing and feeling overwhelmed and they're making themselves wrong for not feeling motivated, they're looking for motivation. And today we are picking up this life-changing conversation with questions from your fellow listeners, and I am just so excited that you get to experience more of KC Davis. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much. We got something really exciting to talk about in the last episode of the Mel Robbins podcast. You and I were talking about laundry dishes, taking care of yourself and how to find the motivation to get the little things done without beating the shit out of yourself. And we learned how to do that from our extraordinary expert therapist and bestselling author KC Davis. Now, KC blew you and me away.
(01:02):
I mean, if I was wearing wind pants, they would've been blown right off my body, blown away. Honestly, I personally think it was worth more than a ticket to Taylor Swift's tour. And if you have not heard that conversation, don't you worry after this one, you can go back one episode and you can hear KC teach you how to remove the shame, the guilt, the judgment that you and I put on ourselves about the little things that we need to get done. But I want you to stay with me right now. Why? Because my mission with this part of the conversation with KC is to prove to you that if you didn't get the dishes done or you didn't get the kids on the bus on time, or if you got dirty dishes piled high in the sink, you're not broken. You're doing just fine. In fact, you're doing better than fine. And KC and I will prove it to you, her hacks are genius. Her advice is a game changer. And today we are picking up this life-changing conversation with questions from your fellow listeners, and I am just so excited that you get to experience more of KC Davis. So you ready to jump in? KC?
KC Davis (02:08):
I'm ready.
Mel Robbins (02:09):
Let's just start with your concept that when it comes to getting things done, momentum is way more important than motivation.
KC Davis (02:16):
So research shows us that momentum builds once we start going. So in a lot of ways we sit around waiting for motivation to do something, when in reality, sometimes motivation precedes the action, like you do something and then you feel that motivation. And the problem with motivation is twofold.
KC Davis (02:33):
You know, we talked last time about how if you're looking at your laundry and going, I don't want to do that. I don't understand why it's important, I don't care. I don't deserve clean laundry, that's a motivation problem. But if you're going, I wish I could get that laundry done, but I just feel frozen to my seat, that's a task initiation problem. And that's when you really want to focus on building momentum. Well, what do you want us to do
Mel Robbins (02:54):
Instead?
KC Davis (02:55):
One of the things I like to say is that we can use 5% momentum, do 5% of the task instead of just waiting around for a hundred percent momentum to do everything. And so thinking to yourself, I don't have to do all the laundry, but I can fold one thing. I don't have to do all the dishes, but I can do two dishes. I can set a timer for five minutes and clean for five minutes.
Mel Robbins (03:14):
That makes perfect sense. But sometimes something that makes sense isn't so easily applied when you feel like shit. And so I want to dig into our listener questions so you can unpack this further, KC, because I keep getting dms and forms submitted@melrobbins.com slash podcast where people are writing and feeling overwhelmed and they're making themselves wrong for not feeling motivated. They're looking for motivation. For example. Here are two questions from listeners who have recently written in. Here's the first one, Mel. I'm having that moment where I'm so overwhelmed I can't get to anything. I've been laid off and it's been a couple of weeks, zero motivation or this one from another listener. After a bad re-break up with my high school sweetheart of several years, I have lost all motivation to clean the house or take care of myself. KC, what do you hear in these questions?
KC Davis (04:18):
I hear a couple of things. There's a difference between motivation and task initiation. So motivation is the awareness and the belief that a thing is worth doing and that you would like to do it or you would at least like the results of it. So if you're looking at your laundry and you're going, what's the point? I don't even deserve clean clothes. That's motivation issues. Or if you're looking at your laundry and going, I don't care. I don't care about it, literally, it literally doesn't bother me to wear dirty clothes. That's a motivation issue. And maybe you could just wear, I mean, who cares? I'm not your judge, right? If you're going, I am so, so frozen, I can't do it. I'm looking at my laundry going, I should do that. I've got to do that. I wish that was done. That's not motivation. What I hear is these people thinking to themselves, I'm not doing anything anymore.
(05:17):
And what I'm hearing is they are doing something. They are processing emotionally a significant crisis in their life, and that takes emotional resources and that takes cognitive resources. And you are not going to have enough resources sometimes to deal with that crisis and do your laundry. That is normal and human. It would be weird. You don't have an unlimited amount of cognitive resources every day. And if you are using a good portion of those, processing pain, caring for a child, processing a breakup, being an emotional pain, re-experiencing trauma, being terrified about how you're going to pay your bills, you are going to use up a lot of your cognitive emotional resources and those executive functioning tools and you are going to struggle to do these other things.
Mel Robbins (06:15):
One of the things that I love saying to anybody and to myself when that happens in life and you feel paralyzed or profoundly overwhelmed or you're in a breakdown, is the pile of laundry and the breakdown and the paralysis is a sign that you're mentally well, yeah, that's you. Your body is processing it. Yeah, you can't, of course you are breaking down. Of course after a major breakup or getting laid off or losing somebody that you love, of course you're going to go through a period of time where you just don't have the energy. I think the problem becomes, and when that's your everyday life where it's chronic, when
KC Davis (07:02):
It's not functional,
Mel Robbins (07:03):
Yes, when it's not functional because you realize you would like to get to this stuff, but you can't even get to the beginning of the task, you're that depleted.
KC Davis (07:16):
And
Mel Robbins (07:17):
When that happens, what do you recommend people do?
KC Davis (07:19):
So that's when we want to look first. We want to go into self-compassion immediately because we know from studies, shame is arresting, self-compassion is motivating. We see greater psychological functioning with people that can exercise. So we get in that place where we're feeling frozen, we can't get things done. We want to first address, how am I speaking to myself about this? Am I saying I'm not doing anything? Well, is that true? It's not. I am doing something right now. I'm doing something very important. I'm listening to my body. I'm processing pain. I am being tender with myself. I am giving myself reasonable expectations and you still deserve clean clothes. So that's when we want to look at some of these little life hacks. That's when we want to look at good enough is perfect because the options aren't lay in bed all day or get up and do all of your laundry. What if the option was lay in bed for 10 hours today and then get up and launder one outfit?
Mel Robbins (08:19):
I love what you just said. So I want to take my little yellow highlighter and make sure that you listening heard exactly what KC just said because this is an important distinction. Shame causes paralysis. When you start to make yourself wrong and you feel paralyzed, you are likely in shame, self-compassion. I'm allowed to be human. I'm doing exactly what I need to, which is processing all this emotion a little bit later. Maybe I can wash one outfit or I can throw some water on my face right now. I'm just going to give myself the rest that I need because I deserve to process this. That is a life-changing distinction, and you now know kind of the emotional feel of both. One is paralysis, that's shame. And that's the beat down. And we want you to get out of that cycle and to use this mantra. You talk about it a lot. I'm allowed to be human.
KC Davis (09:20):
I am. I'm allowed to be human. I'm allowed to be human. And we talk a lot about nobody has to be perfect, but in our head we still have categories of acceptable imperfection and unacceptable imperfection.
Mel Robbins (09:32):
What are some of the big categories that you see in your work that people say are unacceptable categories? We covered not brushing your teeth, but what are unacceptable categories
KC Davis (09:42):
Like being mean to somebody?
Mel Robbins (09:45):
What do you mean?
KC Davis (09:45):
If you were rude or you were mean to someone, or if you blew a huge deadline, if you didn't show up to something that was really important and now you look absolutely ridiculous in front of your whole profession, things where you've upset someone or someone's angry with you or you've let someone down. And we're not saying that that was, let's repeat it because it's not functional. We're not saying that people don't get to have their feelings about whatever you did or said or however you showed up. It's just that I can make a genuine bonafide mistake and it can be very wrong of me to have done, and I still get to be human. Humans do very wrong things sometimes and I want to respond to it by going, okay, I don't like that. I don't want to do that again. How can I grow and heal so that I can move away from that? And I think that that's kind of what it comes down to. And if you're someone who finds yourself in this state chronically, that's when we want to start thinking about accessibility.
KC Davis (10:54):
How can I make my home more accessible? How can I make these tasks more accessible? Because there's a difference between I'm nine months pregnant for only three months and it's hard for me to bend over, and so things just kind of pile up and I just let it because I have the right priorities and it'll get, but if you're someone with chronic back pain, that's not really something you can just go, well, it'll just pile up and I'll get to it when I feel better.
Mel Robbins (11:15):
Right? Right.
KC Davis (11:16):
That's when we need to think a little long-term, which is like, well, maybe you need a grabber.
Mel Robbins (11:21):
What's a grabber?
KC Davis (11:21):
Like a grabber.
Mel Robbins (11:23):
I don't know what a grabber is.
KC Davis (11:24):
Grab. If you've ever had surgery and you can't reach up or reach down, you pull the handle and it's a long stick and there's a little tongs at the end that pick things up for you.
Mel Robbins (11:35):
Wow,
KC Davis (11:36):
Maybe you need a stool.
Mel Robbins (11:37):
So with some wheels, what I'm getting from you, KC, is that when you get caught in this loop where everything's a moral obligation and everything that you're not doing is evidence that you're a loser and that you can't get yourself together, you get so stuck in making it a problem that you don't see the obvious solutions that are right in front of your face. If you were to simply just give yourself a fricking break,
KC Davis (12:02):
Yes, because if what's wrong with you is that you're failing, the only solution is try harder. But if the issue isn't some moral failure, then you trying harder on the same kind of broken wheels isn't going to produce anything else. But if you go, this is a morally neutral problem, but I deserve to function. How can I get creative? How can I fix this? All of a sudden the world opens up and there's all of these creative possibilities. Can I stop folding my clothes? Can I use paper plates for a bit? Can I get a wheelie stool? Can I get a grabber?
(12:38):
Can I do a toy library for my kids where two thirds of their toys stay in this closet and they only have some of their toys out and they can check them in and out as much as they want idea, but all of a sudden you have so many ideas. What if I had a 32 gallon trash can on wheels in my kitchen instead of these tiny little trash cans? Because my kids, I seem to fill up trash cans twice a day and I don't seem to take out trash enough to keep up with it. And so most of us think, well, the answer is make yourself take the trash out, make yourself more motivated. But what if we focus less on that and there was just a simple upgrade, the trash can to be bigger.
Mel Robbins (13:15):
It's so great. I was recently thinking about how much we aim criticism at who you are. I got to be more motivated. There's something wrong with me. Instead of looking at, well, what are you doing and what could I change about what I'm doing? Putting a bigger trash can on wheels in the space, instead of making 55 trips every day and where things are, what is it about the environment? What is it about the way that you're thinking about things?
Mel Robbins (13:43):
I want to give you a couple of our listeners sort of challenges and role play a little bit with you about what hacks or mindset flips or what you would want them to do as a first step.
KC Davis (13:59):
Yeah, let's do it.
Mel Robbins (13:59):
One listener writes, in the midst of my son's autism diagnosis, every single task felt like it would kill me. I had to talk myself through everything step by step to avoid the anxiety for months when somebody's in that kind of a state. I said this about 18 months ago out loud, I can't handle one more thing. If one more thing breaks down in my life, if one more bad thing happens, you're going to have to check me in to an inpatient facility. I can't handle one more thing. She was talking herself through coaching step-by-step by step, what's another strategy somebody could use?
KC Davis (14:40):
So we want to start with the perspective, which is I would say to this person, we often picture a highway as life and these sort of side roads as not life, and we're off on the side road with a broken car kind of going, well, I'm pushing the car, I'm pushing the car, and I just want to get back to life. This isn't how it's supposed to. And I think it's more helpful to envision that there's not this mystical place of life where everybody's running on, firing on all cylinders. Life is in fact getting an autism diagnosis for your child and needing to process through that and just figuring out how we move forward. There's nothing that this person is doing wrong. They're using so much cognitive emotional energy to process this diagnosis. I would also just say from a personal perspective that your son's going to be okay.
(15:33):
Your autistic child can have a very happy full life, so you're going to be okay. You're not doing anything wrong. You are not supposed to be able to do more than what you're capable of doing now. And you're right. What can we do to keep things survival level functional while you get through this? And that's when I would say, if this person, first off, I want this person to start using paper plates immediately. I want paper plates. I want paper napkins. I want you to be able to throw everything away right after a meal. I want you to, as much as your budget allows outsource anything you can, whether that's cleaning or laundry or grocery delivery, I want you to pick one tiny corner of your house that you can make beautiful, and you can get it beautiful and under five minutes. And that's where you get to go and sit when you just can't look at anything else.
(16:26):
I want you to make a hygiene kit for yourself with baby wipes and dry shampoo and something that smells nice. And I want you to go on Amazon and I want you to buy those toothbrushes that are single use toothbrushes that are pre pasted in individual packages. And I want you to put little hygiene kits all around your house because you're just going to be in the middle of it and smell yourself and go, whoa, gosh. And then you'll never be more than a few steps away from ability to take care of yourself when you can't leave your child alone in the room. I want you to put a laundry basket and a trash can in every room of your house so that anytime you create laundry or trash, you're only a few steps away from being able to be done with it in one step, not 3, 4, 5 steps. And I want you to rest.
Mel Robbins (17:10):
I feel like that's what your best friend would do for you. What you just did was beautiful. And I think it's also an extraordinarily tactical example of your space should serve you, and so is the visual of the highway. So I'm thinking about one of our daughters who is just processing a breakup, and she sounded so good today. This is like 24 hours. And she's like, yeah, but I'll be probably in an hour because that's my process.
KC Davis (17:52):
So
Mel Robbins (17:52):
I'm going to take myself on a walk and I'm not going to force myself to do anything today. And as I was listening to her, I'm like, wow, that's exactly right. You don't have to motor through it. You don't have to get on a revenge diet. You don't have to gossip about it all day. You can just take a step back and allow yourself to be human. I have another listener that says personal care. I get completely overwhelmed by taking care of myself. I hate how I look and I hate how I feel because nothing ever changes.
KC Davis (18:33):
So I'm going to assume that this person maybe is talking about I hate how I look physically. So a lot of body consciousness, things like that. So the first thing I would say there is that if that is somehow related to difficulty in showering and doing things like that, that happens. I don't want to see myself naked in the shower. We're just going to cover the mirrors.
KC Davis (18:51):
You don't need to look in the mirror to shower. I want you to get a smaller pocket mirror so that when you want to put your makeup on, when you want to check a zip, when you want to look at your hair, you can do that in pieces though as you need to, but you don't have to look at yourself all day long. And I'm not saying, oh, that's going to cure the way you feel about yourself, but I am saying that's going to give you some relief today. You should be able to have a place in your life where you get to exist without constantly pondering how you look, where you can have a first person experience of life, not a third person experience, where you're always sort of going, what do I look like when I do this? What do I look like when I do that? Then, depending on what this is, but this is a good one. One thing, and again, I'd have to know more about this person, but this is just sort of a tangential thing, is that go into your closet and get rid of the things that you bought because you don't think that your body deserves clean, cute clothes, the things you bought just because it covers you, the matronly shit that you bought because you don't think that you deserve to wear X, Y, Z. Now, get rid of the things that are three sizes too small that you'll never fit into again. But you're going, oh, one day, let's address your closet. Because what I found is a lot of times when I was disliking my body, it was not information I was getting from my body. It was information that I was getting from my clothes. It didn't look right on me, it didn't fit right on me. Well, they're clothes. Your body is not made to fit. Clothes, clothes are made to fit your body. Hallelujah.
Mel Robbins (20:24):
KC Davis, dropping the knowledge again. Say it again.
KC Davis (20:30):
Your body is not meant to fit into clothes. Clothes are meant to fit your body.
Mel Robbins (20:40):
I can even, I'm going through menopause and I know a lot of you see me and you are, you're really skinny, but my body has fricking changed. The things that fit me two years ago don't fit. I was wearing a pair of jeans yesterday that I absolutely love. They got cute little cargo things on the side, legs. The waist is so damn tight. I thought to myself, why am I holding onto these? Because I'm waiting for my menopause middle to go down, and yet I'm sitting here in basically a tourniquet around my waist and it's reminding me all day long that I'm changing and I'm aging, and that makes me feel like something's wrong. And there are, I would say half of my closet has clothes in it that I actually cannot fit into, and it does when I walk in, remind me of where I'm not. And I love the analogy that you gave about the fact that life is not like all these little side roads, and some days you're going to get back to the highway. I'm on the leg of the journey at mile 54 with the mile marker, and there's a lot of clothes in this closet that need to be taken out of the trunk of the car that I'm driving and left on the side of the road or in a donation bin because they're not a part of this stretch of the road trip called life.
KC Davis (22:10):
And I would also tell that person that you don't have to care about yourself in order to begin caring for yourself.
Mel Robbins (22:18):
Oh, say that again.
KC Davis (22:20):
You do not have to care about yourself in order to begin how to learn to tenderly care for yourself. So many times we feel as though we don't deserve to be clean or we don't deserve cute clothes. We don't deserve that shower. We don't deserve to get up and do these things. And I think that when we look at that belief system of I have to wait to like myself before I start treating myself a certain way, it actually happens backwards. We begin with self-compassion and tenderness to care for ourselves, and slowly but surely, it helps us to begin to care about ourselves. And I kind of liken this to, if you go to the pound right now and pick up a dog, you could pick up the Ratt dog. There is no dog that's like, oh, this dog deserves X, y, Z. No, you can go pick up the most behavior prone, yappy, dirty, flea infested dog, and you bring it home. And why do you care for that dog? Because you just decided to literally just decided that that dog, you're going to care for that dog. You just decided it was worthy. The dog didn't have to do anything.
Mel Robbins (23:32):
Can we break this into just a simple series of actions because so many people around the world look in the mirror and see a person that they do not. In fact, in the research that we did for the high five habit, 50% of men and women don't even look at themselves in the mirror. And for somebody that feels such a low level of self-worth that they're unworthy intellectually
Mel Robbins (24:07):
They can get that. You can start caring for yourself in a kind and loving way before you feel like you care about yourself. But what are one or two actions for someone listening that gets that intellectually but doesn't know how to put that into physical practice?
KC Davis (24:30):
Sure. I think one of the things to remember is that self-esteem is really overrated, and it's actually not connected to better outcomes. And how you feel that that is connected to better outcomes in your life. And that's great because self-compassion doesn't require that you like yourself because we can show compassion to people we don't like. I do it all the time. I would also say that if you were looking for an action to do
(24:59):
Some of the things that we've talked about, I think would work like the hygiene kits and just making things easier for yourself is in itself an act of compassion. It's saying, I deserve to access this task, but I also want that person to pick one thing, one little weird bugaboo about their mourning. And I want it to be inconsequential. I don't want it to be big. I want it to be something like, I don't like the way that my feet are cold when I walk from my bed to my bathroom, or I don't like when I wake up and I have to be chilly when I take the dog out first thing in the morning. I don't like that. I have to sit there and make something really simple, and I want you to pick that one thing, and I want you to start doing it for yourself at night.
Mel Robbins (25:46):
Meaning what? So give me an example.
KC Davis (25:48):
So I want you to go, before you go to bed, I want you to move a pair of slippers in front of your bed, or I want you to move a robe by the back door, or I want you to set your coffee to automatically make coffee. And I don't want it to be dishes. I don't want it to be cleaning. I don't want it to be laundry. I want it to be something specifically that has no reflection on, oh, you're doing good, right? So, oh, I cleaned my kitchen. I deserve it. No, no. Something that literally you experience an immediate, oh, that does feel good. Just that one thing.
Mel Robbins (26:21):
I love that. I absolutely love that. Let's talk a little bit about thinking about rest, because we are in this culture or we're in this cultural moment where women are feeling all this pressure to be everything. What got modeled for us in our households growing up was mom did everything.
(26:50):
And at the same time, there's also this incredible grind and hustle culture at work. And hybrid work has made it worse. And the fact I have never experienced in the 10 years that I have been coaching people, the amount of burnout, the amount of people who can never catch a break from work or family or chores or this, the pace that kids are being pushed on travel teams and everybody's just running this race to nowhere and we've forgotten how important rest is. And so how should we think about rest so that we don't feel guilty?
KC Davis (27:42):
We should think of rest as a right and not a reward.
Mel Robbins (27:47):
Oh, can you unpack that for us? A right, not a reward.
KC Davis (27:55):
We often get the message from childhood that rest and recreation is a reward for productivity. You do well, you get something extra, so you have to do your chores, then you can go play, do your homework, then you can go play video games. If you don't work hard in class, can't go to recess. All these. And there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. People want to teach children responsibility and priorities and all of that. But sometimes the unintended message is, I can't go do the fun thing. I can't go do the rest thing until the productive thing is done.
KC Davis (28:32):
And that's fine when you're a kid and your list of things that must be done is finite. If you 12, unpack your backpack. Yeah, unpack your backpack, take out the trash and do the dishes, and great, then go run off and do whatever. And then you become a 30 5-year-old woman and you're like, wait.
(28:48):
But the things that have to be done is unpack the backpacks, then do the dishes, then take the trash out, then feed the cats, then back in the floors, then scrub the baseboards and then call the doctor. And it's like, we think we have to get the whole list done before we can rest and relax so we never relax. And when we finally burn out or we get overwhelmed and we collapse and we're frozen, and we think to ourselves, I'm resting now, but you're not because people who rest in shame work in shame. People who work in shame, rest in shame. When you think that all of those tasks are moral obligations and you're not going to be good enough if you can't stay on top of it, then if you do go and sit down, all you're thinking about are the things you should be doing, and you don't actually rest. And so you get up now, you're behind and you're tired and you think, I can't do this. And then for a lot of people, they get so overwhelmed and burnt out that they kind of go frozen and can't do anything. And then they go, well, I must be lazy. I must try harder. I got to do more. When it's like, whoa, maybe you need to do less.
(29:52):
How
Mel Robbins (29:53):
Do you put that into action? Because as you were talking, I'm like, that's me. I don't know anybody at least know women that are able to truly take a break rest and not feel guilty about it.
KC Davis (30:13):
So I think that there's been a lot of talk about taking breaks and how important that is. And I want to go in a slightly different direction. One, because a lot of people can't, they physically can't. Things will fall apart, things will not be functional. And I think that if you are someone privileged enough to have the time, money, energy to be able to take breaks, you then you've heard that advice, you can just go do that, right?
(30:38):
So instead of thinking about, well, how am I going to get a break? How am I going to get a break? How am I going to break? And yes, we need breaks. However, let's think instead about how we can get rest by just making things easier for ourselves. So the example that I use a lot is let's say you have a mom and she's overwhelmed. Maybe she's a single mom, she's overwhelmed. And so the traditional sense of a break would be like, well, can you get someone to babysit the kids so that you can take a few hours a week?
Mel Robbins (31:04):
Great,
KC Davis (31:04):
That's fine. That's nice, but
Mel Robbins (31:06):
What if they can? But you know what? That doesn't happen because then you think it's going to take me time to find somebody and then I'm going to have to coordinate it, and then I'm going to owe them the two hours. And so that's a wonderful thing for researchers to recommend. But in a normal person's life, it doesn't fucking happen.
KC Davis (31:21):
So instead, let's go, how can we make something easier? So what if Friday nights at this woman's house are rest nights and instead of cooking, she orders a pizza or instead of cooking, she makes a giant grazing plate for her kids and she puts it out and goes, eat what you want. Or if they're older, what if she goes, it's make your own dinner night. And I don't care what you make at the ice cream out of the freezer, I don't care. So you find a way to give yourself a big break on how you're feeding. And then you say, Friday nights are also movie nights. And that means we all make a pallet in the floor. We turn on the tv, and I don't care what time you go to bed.
(32:08):
And in those few hours, maybe she doesn't get to go anywhere. Maybe she's not, maybe she can step away and do a fun project, but at the least she gets to sit there and do nothing and things are just easier. There are no dishes to clean up. She uses paper plates. She doesn't have to do the bedtime rigmarole of who? I don't want to sleep and read me another story. No, we're just going to sit here and watch tv. Or that's the night we all sleep in mom's bed. Or that's the night. Let's find a way to make Fridays or Sunday afternoons or Saturday mornings easier for a period of time where you just kind of go hands off, needs are met, your kids are going to think it's fun. You're going to give yourself a break. Amazing. I think that's why,
Mel Robbins (32:49):
That's how my shoulders just dropped. It's now going to be movie night and fend for yourself on Friday nights. You have a saying about paper plates that I would love for you. You have this mantra about paper plates hit us.
KC Davis (33:03):
Yeah. So my mantra about paper plates is you can't save the rainforest if you're depressed. And this came about because I was making a video trying to help somebody in a deep depression about how do they do their dishes? And I brought out, everyone's going to have that Tupperware molding in the back of the refrigerator, and that's keeping you from doing anything around your kitchen. And what I want to say to you is just throw the Tupperware away. Just throw it away. You can save the rainforest if you're depressed. Better that we take some shortcuts now to get you back to being a functional human being where you can actually have the energy and the capacity to contribute to environmental causes in a way that matters, right? We know that there's a way to contribute that makes a big impact, and that is through your politics, through perhaps your donations, perhaps your volunteering. But we're not going to save the earth just by convincing depressed people to hang on to their moldy Tupperware and their cardboard boxes.
Mel Robbins (34:03):
You're fucking awesome. I wish you lived next door to me.
KC Davis (34:07):
And by the way, I've never seen an environmentalist shame a diabetic for using single use plastic syringes. And yet, I have seen so many people in the name of environmentalism shame, a new mother or a person in grief, or a person with really bad A DHD or autism for using a single use toothbrush or a paper plate.
Mel Robbins (34:28):
You have a concept called fair Rest. And for those of you that are living with family or a roommate and you feel like you're the one that does everything, what is the concept of fair rest? And how can you use it so that the kind of division of labor, so to speak, which almost never really works in people's households and in the apartments that you share with roommates, how do you use this concept of fair rest?
KC Davis (35:04):
So this is a different way of looking at division of labor because the traditional way of looking at it is equal labor. So the work should be equal. But when you talk about the work should be equal, let's just say we're talking about a marriage, what that sets you up for is comparison, competition, and every man for himself, because then it's me having to prove the labor that I'm doing and how worthy it is. And then my husband has to prove how valuable his labor is and who's doing more. And unless you have the exact same job, and even then it's like who's going to compare a corporate attorney to an author or a stay-at-home mom, a coal miner to a teacher, to a psychotherapist, to a doctor can't. There's all sorts of different ways why people's jobs are difficult or any of those things. So it, I have to look out for me. I have to prove the value of my labor and then fight for only getting what's going to be fair. No, no, no. Back it up. It doesn't actually matter whether the work is equal. It matters whether the rest is fair and to make the rest fair. It might be that one person's going to be working more or harder than the other and different seasons.
(36:23):
So an example of this might be an easy example. Let's say, let's take that corporate attorney and that stay-at-home mom. And they're going and he's going, I work so many hours, and she's going, I work nonstop too. And we look at how can we work together to make sure each of us is getting fair rest? And you can look and go, okay, well, what if that corporate attorney, even though he works all the time, he's still off the clock sometimes and he still gets that lunch break. He still has what we call time autonomy to decide what and when to do things. And you have this stay-at-home parent who has a more flexible schedule. Maybe she does get to have that rest in the middle of the day or something, but she's also doing care tasks, which are cyclical in nature. They never stop. They never stop. She's always on call. She's always on call.
Mel Robbins (37:20):
And
KC Davis (37:21):
So it might be that they need to have a conversation about, on Saturdays, you be the default parent,
Mel Robbins (37:30):
Right?
KC Davis (37:31):
You be the one that changes the diapers and makes the dinners and listens for the fights and does those things. And on Sundays, I'll be the default parent. And when you're not the default parent, you get to just exist in your home. You get to go read a book, you get to do this, you get to do that. Now, that's not a prescription, that's not going to work for everybody. But if you have a dentist and a teacher, let's talk about fair rest. Let's talk about both of us deserve at certain point at night to clock out. We both deserve a functional house, but everyone deserves to clock out of home labor and out of house labor. It shouldn't be the case that one person spends most of their time facilitating the life of the other.
Mel Robbins (38:20):
Whoa. And what I liked best about what you said, because you once again flipped the paradigm, is that for most of us that are struggling with division of labor in our relationships, households, we're in a deadlock and a fight about the importance of the work that you're doing, justifying that you need time off. And interestingly, when I started my career, this part of my career and my speaking business really took off. It was at a moment in time where Chris had left the restaurant business, and he was what we started calling the first call parent, which meant he was the first person on the list at school that got called when there was something going on. And he was a stay at home dad. And what I noticed was very interesting, and that is that as I took on the role of primary and solo breadwinner, I also took on the gender kind of stereotype of feeling like my work was more important.
(39:33):
And here I had been the first call parent for over a decade. And yet now that I'm making the money and I'm doing all the things, and I'm out and I'm traveling and I'm working and I'm bringing home the, and I'm doing all this stuff, I as a woman valued my contribution as much more than what my husband was doing by taking care of the kids. And we would have all of these battles about, I need time, but you've been out and I haven't had a break, but we were in the non stereotypical gender roles in our marriage, and I found it extremely enlightening how work out of the house or the type of work that you do makes you think you deserve more. And by making the conversation about rest, because we all believe that and can see that we deserve rest. And in talking about the fact that when you're the first call parents, you're in a never ending cycle. There is no lunch break, there is no time off while somebody's taking a nap. You're probably trying to fold laundry, you'd need rest. And so by talking about it in this way, it actually brings compassion instead of competition into it. I love that. I love that. I love that.
KC Davis (40:55):
And I was thinking about this the other day. There's been a lot of talk on my TikTok channel about division of labor, and especially this idea of wealth. I bring home the bills that they should be taking care of everything else. And I think then you have, well, this is actually being at home's heart. Well, actually, and then we get in the competition. But think of it this way, there's a big difference between a couple saying, Hey, this is how much I work, and here are the things that need to get done.
KC Davis (41:26):
If you were to do X, Y, Z, then how can we divide these so that you and I, the maximum amount of free time? It's not about what do I deserve? I shouldn't have to take out the trash because I did X, Y, Z. If I take out the trash right now while he's doing bedtime, then we'll both get to hang out afterwards. It's
Mel Robbins (41:50):
Not a tit for tat.
KC Davis (41:52):
Yeah, it's not. It's okay. We decided that I'm going to stay home and you're going to do this, and because of the amount you work, I'll do most of this stuff, not because, oh, I have to pull my weight, or you don't have to do this, but because it just makes the most sense, because then we can both have time. But the other half of that is having an explicit conversation about what is the minimum standard of functionality, because everybody deserves to function and letting go of perfectionism. One of the reasons why I think we miss this conversation is that it's not just about who's taking out the trash. It's also about when one of you comes home and the trash isn't taken out, how do we respond to that? Do we go right to accusatory? Do we go right to you? Should have done it. Do we go right to, or do we go to Grace? Do we go, wow, I wonder if they had a hard day today?
Mel Robbins (42:52):
I am guilty of all of this. Chris and I have had all of these issues in our marriage. The one thing that's very triggering for Chris is when I stack the cardboard boxes by the garage door, and I don't flatten them. And when he sees the tower of cardboard boxes, he says, look, I feel like you think I'm the maid here. And so we've had that conversation. I got a lot out of this concept of fair rest and maximizing the amount of free time, and I'm going to bring that into my conversations with Chris because we haven't talked about it that way. What flipped it for me, KC, is that I started to see how gross it was that I was adopting this very masculine traditional value work hire. Even though I'm didn't feel that way at all, it's almost as if society itself had me absorb those messages. So insidious the way it can impact you, I started to realize I can't do what I do and have the family life that I want without him here full time.
KC Davis (44:01):
Oh, yeah.
Mel Robbins (44:02):
There's not another person I can pay even that. Well, what would I pay somebody to clean the house? And it's not the same because that's their dad. And so it's priceless. And so when I finally absorbed that and I believed it and felt it, we became equal in terms of the contribution. But I have never had the conversation about what rest you need. How do we maximize our time together? How can we be in better partnership? And I think that's a game changer,
KC Davis (44:32):
Complete game changer, especially a game changer when you have that first call parent. Because unless the person who's not that default parent, they have to be proactive about inserting themselves into situations in order for that first call parent to rest, even if they're still at the house. Because you'll often have a dynamic where, okay, partner A is the default most of the time. And so when someone cries, do I wait to see if they're going to do it? And if they don't, okay, I'll do it. If they're busy, I'll do it. I help. I do. Okay. But it's not just if they're busy, you do it. Sometimes you have to get up and do it
KC Davis (45:13):
So they don't have to they don't have to be busy. That's not the only justification for being able to just sit on your couch for more than five minutes at a time.
Mel Robbins (45:22):
It's a right to rest. Yes, not a reward. I remember when I was struggling profoundly with postpartum, and I know you had a very significant struggle too. I was so sick and so weak and so depressed that I was in bed severely medicated for 12 weeks. And it was a really awful moment in my life, and it was severe enough that they didn't want me to be alone with the baby with Sawyer. And I remember during that time that our cousins, Lisa and Steve paid to have their cleaning person come to our house once a week. And it was one of the greatest gifts somebody could have ever given me. And I also had my parents who could stay, but just for, they stayed for a couple weeks, and then Chris's parents came, and then I had a very dear friend, Joanie sit with me while Chris could go off to work because I couldn't take a shower. I couldn't brush my teeth, I couldn't get out of bed, and I needed to be recovering. And I'll never forget that. And I wondered what thoughts you had about what the person listening can do to help someone that they love through a really tough time, like postpartum or depression or the loss of a loved one, or just those moments where something happens or you find yourself in a stretch of the highway called life where laundry is overwhelming. Brushing your teeth is like scaling Mount Everest. What can someone do to help?
KC Davis (47:14):
So taking into consideration that you have to kind of look at who that person is to you, right? The way you would show up at someone's front door of your best friend, maybe wouldn't want to show up at the front door of someone who you work with. But that being said, one of the things that I have found that almost works for everyone, and I know that sounds like I'm just like the paper plate queen, but if you take someone in a hard time, a giant stack of paper, plates, paper, all paper stuff, it's magical because here's what happens. It's already there.
KC Davis (47:51):
They may not ever go out to do that because they care about the environment because they don't think it's that bad. But if you already put it there, they're not making any environmental impact by just using it.
Mel Robbins (48:03):
That's true.
KC Davis (48:04):
That's my favorite gift because I don't need to know their dietary restrictions. I don't need to go into their house if they're not comfortable with that. Everyone can get a break from doing dishes, and you take all the guilt away by just being like, I'm leaving it on your front porch.
Mel Robbins (48:21):
Oh, I love that. KC Davis, you are a treasure. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. From the bottom of my heart,
KC Davis (48:30):
Thank you for having me. I so
Mel Robbins (48:31):
Much Thank you. Oh my God, I told you you would love her. I feel like that conversation was such a gift. And do me a favor. If you got anything out of this conversation, pass it on, pass it on to everybody that you know, because everyone is struggling with this topic and we're not talking about it. The fact is, at some point in your life or in your best friend's life, or in the life of one of your family members, you're going to go through a hard time. And what's so amazing is you now know how to help yourself, and you know how to help someone else through it. I say it all the time that these low moments and the high moments are temporary, but together we can help one another through them. We can get rid of the shame and the judgment and be a little bit kinder to ourselves and one another, and one more thing.
(49:29):
I don't give a shit what your house looks like or how high the laundry pile is, or how many dirty dishes you have, or whether or not the milk in the fridge is sour or fresh or plant-based. I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to stop folding laundry, to stop making yourself wrong, and to start being kinder more compassionate, because you'll immediately create a better life. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. Hey, it's Mel. Okay, you ready? You are in for an absolute. Okay. Jesus. Okay. This is so good. Do I have chocolate in my teeth, Jesse? No. Okay. You good? Swig? Oh, shit. Okay. You corrected that properly. Yeah, I did, but I didn't. Okay. I dunno what the, okay. I should probably start all over so I clear my, oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it. Good. I'll see you in the next episode.
(51:15):
Thanks for being here. Make sure you pass this on if you've got value. And if you love this, go right here.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
KC Davis
KC Davis is a licensed therapist, author, and speaker focused on practical self-care, mental health, and managing life’s overwhelming moments.
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Books
If you’re struggling to stay on top of your to-do list, you probably have a good reason: anxiety, fatigue, depression, ADHD, or lack of support. For therapist KC Davis, the birth of her second child triggered a stress-mess cycle. The more behind she felt, the less motivated she was to start. She didn’t fold a single piece of laundry for seven months. One life-changing realization restored her sanity—and the functionality of her home: You don’t work for your home; your home works for you.
With KC’s help, your home will feel like a sanctuary again. It will become a place to rest, even when things aren’t finished. You will move with ease, and peace and calm will edge out guilt, self-criticism, and endless checklists. They have no place here.
Resources
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- Neuroscience: Motivation depends on level of fatigue.
- The New York Times: How society has turned its back on mothers.
- Times Magazine: Think before telling a mom: “They’re only young once.”
- Scientific American: Why your brain needs more downtime.
- Harvard Business Review: How to get something done when you’re feeling down.
- Stanford Medicine: The scientific benefits of self-compassion.
- University of Colorado: 6 signs of depression you shouldn’t ignore.
- UC, Berkeley: 5 ways to help someone with depression.
- Autism Speaks: A parent’s guide to autism.
- Science of People: How to beat birthday blues.
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